Ladies: Men today are more domineering than naturally dominant. We can improve society and our lives. We’d be better off to rearrange male priorities back to female-friendly male dominance with wives in charge of home and family and husband in charge of society and the workplace. Its many years away, but a few more tidbits over morning coffee may help move us toward greater harmony in home and family.
- The more you give, the brighter you live.
- Love and sex bond us, but men bond not with sex but with our need of them.
- If he’s mean and mistreats you, it’s forever. Keep him expendable so you can test him well in courtship.
- Manipulation is contagious, and success breeds more of it. This makes it deadly to a relationship.
- Perception is reality. Whatever appears to be, is.
- The world would be a better place if men and women kidded and joked about each other good naturedly rather than maliciously as feminists have taught us.
LEFT OVER from last week’s post (#890) on guilt: Our toughest guilt to handle rises up from our man’s indifference toward us or what’s important to us. Don’t let him shut you up with blame and guilt. Prompt but don’t pry, try but don’t cry, seek fairness and not equalness.
“men bond not with sex but with our need of them.”
Interesting. Do you have any tips on how to show need during courtship while still being hard-to-get?
Your Supremeness Anonymous,
Guy helped with these responses:
• Show your need indirectly and avoid high expectations.
• Don’t be a clinging vine; you look desperate.
• Show interest but not dependence.
• Applaud his efforts to serve himself, his accomplishments, especially those of which he’s proud—e.g., reputation enhancements, career benefits, self-respect, wealth building. But keep your life detached from his. Elevate his value in life or as a person without making claims on it or him.
• Especially praise his character qualities that fit within your moral code or religious beliefs.
• Show independence from men, while acknowledging endlessly that you await Mr. Right. Ease into letting him know he might be Mr. Good Enough, and he’ll seek to become Mr. Right.
• Show appreciation for his ability to provide/protect/produce/problem solve in general as opposed to doing it for you. You do better enabling him to be the first one to conclude that he fits permanently into your life. If he doesn’t have to work himself in, his sense of accomplishment wanes and your promise with it.
• You focus on having fun with him that produces the impression that you need him around just to make life laughingly worthwhile.
• Translate “our need of them” to mean that a man determines that you need him. You don’t show your need; he concludes it. He looks for extraordinariness in your feminine mystique, female modesty, and commitments to morality, monogamy, and marriage. You disclose those qualities with female indirectness, feminine charm, and independent spirit. You avoid directness, confrontation, and competition except for first-time sex with him.
• Remember: A man sees that a woman needs him, when he’s loaded with just what she needs for the good life. By her indirectly elevating his future-brightening qualities, he sees himself as the man she needs. It’s the self-fulfilling prophecy in action; we become like those with whom we associate.
Best wishes, Anonymous!
Mrs. Guy
Oooo so many good tips, thank you!
Hey Guy,
I’ve seen a lot of advice for men “be overconfident”, in their pursuit of women for example. I’m 26, a virgin (I didn’t plan it out to be, just never found a guy who seemed…well..right). However, I live in NYC where I’m routinely harassed daily, when I’m in jeans even, and threatened when I do not respond. I stopped dressing as feminine as I’d like to at one point because it helps many women not have to deal with the consequences of assault. I feel I’m a bit too old and naive at this point to pursue a first long term relationship with relatively low experience, and I’m suffering from anxiety around men: I’ve become terrified whenever a guy shows interest because of this harassment. Generally people have told me I’m sweet and considerate. But when they met me they thought I was a total “B word”. Overall the men I’d be interested in might stare but never approach me, and the men I have no interest in make me terrified of men in general.
I have two questions for you:
1. How does a a highly feminine woman look approachable while turning off the men who harass/assault women; who make it unsafe for us to appear feminine in public, other than by dimming down our feminine appearance?
2. At what age is someone lacking in experience simply “unsexy” even by traditional male standards? I’ve always been under the impression that my lack of experience was more of a turn-off. That many men would think there must be something fundamentally wrong with me if no guy has conquered me yet. I also thought men valued more women who had a certain amount of practice, then again, grass is always greener on the other side.
Confused,
~D2D
Your Highness Dare2Dream,
Welcome aboard. Your questions fascinate, but my time is short this morning. I’ll respond later today, or it may be tomorrow, and it could grow into an article. See ya’ later.
Guy
Your Delicateness Dare2Dream,
I respond to your two questions here. Also, today’s article (#898) takes a more generic look at the situations you’ve raised. It may help, but after reading your next comment of April 20, I’m not so sure. So, I respond to it separately.
Also, I strongly endorse Lady Nemesis’ suggestion about cross, bible, and greeting as described in her comment of 4/20.
YOUR QUESTION: How does a highly feminine woman look approachable while turning off the men who harass/assault women; who make it unsafe for us to appear feminine in public, other than by dimming down our feminine appearance?
RESPONSE: Your attire can’t make you approachable to some and safe from others. But stronger attitude and less fearful demeanor may improve your dilemma. You’re incapable of making diverse groups of men react as you’d like with the same stimulation.
Your power lies in your ability to make yourself distinctively different and mentally stronger. You want both groups of men to accept you as outwardly confident and even bold, unafraid and even brave. Not your strength but appearance of strength attracts those with friendly intent and discourages those with offensive intent—but even then not without error.
YOUR QUESTION: At what age is someone lacking in experience simply “unsexy” even by traditional male standards? I’ve always been under the impression that my lack of experience was more of a turn-off. That many men would think there must be something fundamentally wrong with me if no guy has conquered me yet. I also thought men valued more women who had a certain amount of practice, then again, grass is always greener on the other side.
RESPONSE: These issues are far more complex than your questions imply. They’re explained in the series “Her Sexual History” as listed in the contents page.
Guy
By the way, good article for everyone: http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001161.cfm
Guy,
I can hardly wait for your response to Dare2Dream. As an unmarried 22 year old, the issue of catcalls is one of the most perplexing of all social interactions. I don’t know what to do in those situations, as anywhere I turn seems to put me in a lose-lose situation. Not responding makes me appear to be rude or callous, and men’s tone changes very quickly from playfulness (albeit, inappropriate playfulness) to anger once their ego has been hurt. Ignoring them sometimes seems to aggravate the situation. But responding can be seen as encouragement, and I don’t even agree with how they choose to interact with women. Also, there are those situations where I feel I must respond, either because of close proximity or because it would be too rude to remain quiet. I was raised to be polite and I try to be kind even in these circumstances.
This is just one of many situations where I wish inner beauty would have an opportunity to shine through. But if the situation appears to present one with only two options (be rude or go against your convictions), things get very confusing, indeed.
Dear Dare to Dream,
I know Guy is going to respond to your questions but I just wanted to encourage you to thoroughly read through this blog to get some great insight into how men think.
You will find that the whole “men want women with ‘experience’” idea is a bunch of bunk ( to put it nicely) and my question is…how can they tell by looking at you if you have experience? It’s none of their business! They haven’t earned the right to know!
Also, are you an introvert? I am and I don’t like lots of public attention especially from strangers. It has nothing to do with my femininity but more with my personality type. Don’t apologize for the fact that you are bothered by certain types of attention.
Even though I am an “older” married woman with a large family, I found a great deal of validation for my feelings when I read A Return To Modesty by Wendy Shalit. She is articulate and hard-hitting in her writing and contrasts modern day treatment of women with historical research. I encourage you to read this book (I found it at my local library but you can order it anywhere).
Jill F.
Your Brilliantness JillF. and Beautifulness Dare to Dream,
I strongly endorse Shalit and ‘Return to Modesty’. Her writing primed and helped clarify much of my thinking. Hard to believe she was only about 23 when she wrote it.
Guy
Dare2Dream, I must ask. Have you been physically assaulted by men in the past?
I know that men being men, they do appreciate a pretty lady and they get a kick out of whistling or catcalling. That being said, I know it’s a little frightening in certain situations so I think a little caution is never a bad idea. I’ve recently begun making a habit of having a daughter or friend go with me when doing errands etc. so I’m not alone. I’m not used to it, as I’ve always been very independent but I find I rather like taking care of myself this way now. I also am careful about the obvious things such as not using an ATM machine or going to a gas station late at night and things like that.
I hope and pray you will hold on to your virginity and not waste it on a man who isn’t willing to pay a high price for it. It’s more than a physical thing, it’s an innocence that can never come back once it’s gone and this innocence should be traded for something just as wonderful-a oneness with the man you’ll spend the rest of your life with!
I agree Laura M. I also realized a while ago that being catcalled has very little to do with dressing trashy (never, have always dressed modestly and been uncomfortable with too much cleavage. Catcalled in NYC is a bit of an understatement. If it were just whistling I guess it wouldn’t be so bad. It’s happened no matter what I wore, and ignoring it has meant getting insults and threats hurled at me (someone once threatened to “knife up my face”, although I’ve been threatened, some men even follow you down the street cursing and calling you all sorts of names). It just seems less safe to be feminine and/or attractive for women, and if femininity is what attracts men, then I’d really like to know how we should deal with the safety issue. I have never been physically assaulted or sexually abused or anything. I have been stalked, followed home, and as said threatened for ignoring psychos too many times to even mention.
I get followed home by some psycho about 5x a year. This is probably why women in industrial cities like NYC often dress down unless they are with men. So far, I’d say, if I were with a man I’d feel safe to be feminine. I could walk down the street and smile and be myself, and I have done this on dates. And I’m almost positive that this is one of the many reasons why big city women are more standoffish than many southern women having lived both places. I also have met many women who play down their femininity. And yes, I’ve heard stories of attractive women Princess Rita, who intentionally look “unapproachable” more so as to not accidentally lead such men on.
“You will find that the whole “men want women with ‘experience’” idea is a bunch of bunk”
I meant that it seems that lack of relationship experience past a certain age can make men a little weird’d out. But you’re right, I have only recently started reading this blog, and while I’ve gone back and read a lot of what’s written I could’ve missed some insight on this issue, I will check the contents. Yes, I am an introvert
. Shyness is pretty common and yet, women in general have this concern about being perceived as “stuck up” because we’re shy when we don’t fit the glasses, pimples and teenager description. Grr, sorry to cover so many issues, but yes dealing with femininity in terms of safety (how to be approachable to the right men and unapproachable to the wrong ones is an important question I’ve always wanted the answer to).
D2D
Your Exceptionalness Dare2Dream,
I’ve been upstaged. While I struggled to respond with some complex formulation to ease your discomfort when harassed/assaulted, Lady Nemesis delivered gold on a platter. What she says about cross, bible, greeting, and church far surpass in wisdom what I say in my comment and today’s article.
She gives you substance based on experience, whereas I give little more than theory. Adopt her tips.
Guy
D2D,
You must be an unusually beautiful woman. May I please ask your race? Are you considered “exotic”? Do you have a body type that allures men no matter what you wear?
If all you say is true. I think so, I’ve seen it before.
I would reccomend dressing very conservative and “churchy”. What do I mean by this?
Dress innocently and put on a cross necklace. (I know some of yall are going to go crazy but hear me out because it works for me on the trains of Los Angeles)
And carry a bible.
A man is not going to stalk you if you greet him with a “God Bless you Brother”
When I am readign a bible on the train: NO MAN will bother me.
You may think this is extreme. But then again, being stalk and knife threats are extreme.
Doesn’t matter if you are a beliver or not. I am so sure this would work I’m willing to bet you on it.
Some men are just brutes in this culture.
If you are an unusual beauty, and it sound slike you are. Then short of wearing a hijab, you got to get creative.
1. small bible
2. cross necklace
3. greet all men with “God bless you brother”
4. you can even invite them to attend your “church”
Your Magnificentness Lady Nemesis,
I bow to your superior wisdom for being both practical and effective.
Guy
Awwwww Guy! I love it when handsome men tell me such things!
A friend of mine calls defenses like this as spraying them with “Jesus repellent”. As a believer, I’ve been doing something like this quite innocently and naturally for years with men who say inappropriate things to me. I just start talking to them about how much I love God and asking them if they are a Christian. Most of the time, this gets rid of undesirables. Careful though, I had one on the phone recently who said he’d just “gotten baptized” and yet still propositioned me VERY inappropriately. Luckily, it’s easy to hang up the telephone.
Brutish men are repelled by “church women” no matter how pretty they are.
Your Highness Lady Nemesis,
I’ve changed the spelling of the fourth word in your comment. If not what I substituted, let me know and I’ll restore your intent.
Also, I agree with your statement and thank you for its timeliness for my responses to Dare2Dream. Well done, young lady.
Guy
Great idea Lady Nemesis! PS. You don’t have to be “exotic” to get harassed. As a White woman, I’ve often been bothered and called names by “exotic” men.
Also, please forgive me if I’m being oversensitive but can we be careful about over-using the word assault? There is a difference between words spoken and actual assault. If I’m being over-sensitive I don’t mind being told so but something about throwing the word assault around bring to mind feminista talk such as the phrase “all men are rapists” and things like that.
What kind of threats are you getting Dare2Dream? Are they threats to your person? If so, you should be on the phone immediately to the police and you should find a well-lit place to wait for the police until they come. I’m saying a prayer for you now that you will be safe.
Princess Rita
Wow Lady Nemesis, great advice! My daughters are going to read this.
Our 16 year old daughter had an experience on the bus that illustrates the world we are living in. She is tall and (I guess) looks older than 16. She is a vivacious, smiling, “sparkly” girl who draws conversation and attention wherever she goes.
A young man struck up a conversation with her about where she went to school. She said she was in high school but going to the community college and he asked her age and she told him she was 16. He said, “Wow, man, I’m 24, if I dated you it would be illegal (is that an inappropriate remark or what?).
She told him she didn’t date, her family practiced courtship (you would think that this would repel him but no….).He asked her what church she went to and what courtship was. She explained that it was getting to know each other as friends, getting to know the family etc.
Then (!) he said,”Well, can I have your cell number so I can call you sometime?” When she told him that she didn’t have a cell phone THIS is what sent him “over the edge”! He exclaimed, “What are you, the POPE?”
We all had a good laugh about his response(and it has since become the “joke word” for our four year old (when he wants to make everyone laugh he says, “What are you the POPE?”).
Of course, we were quick to tell her she didn’t even have to respond to anyone she didn’t want to. Our oldest daughter told her that a cell phone is handy for calling yourself and acting like you have to take a call in order to interrupt the conversation. We have gotten her a cell phone since then.
Our 16 year old said that there was a little old lady sitting there with her Bible and she eventually moved over next to her so that he would stop talking to her. Not much physical protection but it stopped the conversation.
We really emphasize to our daughters that it is not “unchristian” to be blunt with men who are talking inappropriately to them.
Jill f.
My Lady Laura M,
I too am in a similar situation. I have to deal with that everyday, almost constantly, in school. (Really, you’d think young men would be more chivalrous -_-) I have realized that there is such a thing as general friendliness and personal friendliness.
General friendliness is one’s demeanor towards society. It’s exhibited in things like holding the door or not littering.
Personal friendliness is from one person to another, like talking, or hugging. Personal friendliness should, as a rule, be only given to those who respect you.
A wise man said that being kind to people disrespecting you only makes them disrespect you more.
That’s true.
I used to ignore them, until they sat next to me. Then I would talk to them.
Na ah.
They just mock and trash more. And the girls are just as bad. (Why they should turn I do not know).
I am currently finding that ignoring them all is working very well. Better yet to pretend they do not exist. Finding no reaction to their venting they give up.
As for looking rude: I am learning that it is possible to be friendly and maintain boundaries.
If someone is harrasing you, your friendliness is exhibited by the lack of response you show. In not responding, you are keeping your half of the interaction pleasant. By walking away/ ignoring it you are peacefully ending that interaction.
How much friendlier can one get?
And if they can’t tell that that’s friendliness, then it’s their loss.
That’s all the advice I have for now. I’m still working this stuff out myself. I aim to try some of Lady Nemesis’ advice.
Also, if you can joke about it do so. Very good. I have a few jokes I do daily as I go about campus. Very subtle, but provides me with a good internal laugh.
As far as unfriendliness goes, I claim social stupidity based on negative IQ. (<A long story and more to it then that. But that's the gist of it).
Remember: Don't take yourself to seriously. Everyone already does that for you. Last thing you need is their burden on your back.
Hope it helps!
Simplicity Evermore,
Thank you so much for your reply. It was very encouraging. I too am still trying to make sense of it all. The best that I know to do in those situations is to remain calm and pray for wisdom, especially when I’m out on my own.
My Lady Laura M.
Yes, prayer. Prayer is a fabulous way to fight for inner calm. Also, I find that keeping a verse or two around helps keep one’s spirit up during the day.
*hugs*
~Sim Sim
“wives in charge of home and family and husband in charge of society and the workplace.”
Guy it would be great if you could do a post on the topic of men and women in the workplace. In my dreamworld, I would not have to work in the corporate world at all. Sometimes its ok, but I have been mistreated by too many men in the workplace. Harassment, yelling, threats, backstabbing, negative politics, arrogance, disrespect, all in their quest to get to the top or what I don’t know (ok the girls often do the backstabbing too but somehow its less bothersome), etc. Somehow, men are all able to deal with all this among each other. Women find it harder to deal with. It seems women (and the nice guys) are always unhappy with their jobs in the corporate world. Catty stuff from women I can somehow deal with, but the harshness from men (superiors not equal colleagues) I can’t. Not to mention their expectations that I am somehow not different as a woman.
I just feel like I do not fit. Square peg in a round hole. I see my boss and boss’s boss and don’t want their jobs. And yet this is the life/type of work that my family expects me to have. I’m not saying I don’t want to work, I work in an exciting field and at one point was motivated. However, I am tired of using my brain and forcing myself to fake it like I am career-driven. I live in a hyper competitive career obsessed town where people value you based on what’s on your resume and I want out. I’m much happier doing things with my hands. How I now wish I could sew, make jewelry, cook, garden etc and still make decent money (and get respect from my family).
Your High Spiritedness Easybreezy,
Give me a few days to post about men and women in the workplace. Tough subject, but perhaps it can be made easier.
Guy
I hate working in corporate too…I have more trouble dealing with women but everyone is so competitive and crazy. It doesn’t jive with my collaborative spirit. Is there anyway you can retrain to work from home? You may have to downsize a bit but so it’s so worth it.
“Great idea Lady Nemesis! PS. You don’t have to be “exotic” to get harassed. As a White woman, I’ve often been bothered and called names by “exotic” men.”
I agree.I’ve heard this from woman from all walks of life, regardless of race and size. Harassers often mention specific traits associated with the person they are harassing in reference to their body and race for example, it is easy to think this is the reason why. Women who grow up in poorer neighborhoods experience it from “exotic men”, and therefore likely to look exotic themselves. And women living in cities experience it more than women in suburban/small towns. There’s a strong correlation between the women being heavily harassed and those who look the least approachable. A lot of women are terrified and seem to come up with these solutions 1. Gain weight (this has been studied). 2. Look angry and appear standoffish. 3. Dress more in sneakers and unflattering clothing. 4. Become overwhelmed by this and bite a man’s head off who may be well-intentioned. What’s the variable? Looking less feminine. This is a powerful albeit complicated example of what I’m talking about. And in short, I’m not alone in feeling this way. I’m willing to bet that a huge percentage of women in NYC who don’t dress up will list safety as a common reason, not the biggest reason, but one at least. We also hear in the media of women getting sexually assaulted when they wear skirts and heels more often then in sneakers and sweats. I know a lot of women may not realize they’re doing this, but I’m sure every woman at least once has gone out of their way to look less enticing (feminine) to psychopaths who may approach them at night or in abandoned areas. And I definitely know the difference between looking trashy and fem. So yes, as much as I’d like to believe I’m super attractive, I know that men who are powerless to improve their circumstances externalize their insecurity by making women feel bad for being and looking like women.
Guy, thank you so much for answering these questions! It was a question I always wanted to ask men, and thank you for your superior honesty. Usually I get “well, uh you should just be flattered” or “well, uh, Idunno, not all guys are like that”, and my friends have been getting the same! Needless to say I will pass this info along as well as the latest post. And I really really appreciate your offering solutions. Also special thanks to Lady Nemesis and Princess Rita, I will certainly take those tips into consideration!!
D2D
Thanks Guy! Looking forward to it (and I am currently considering applying for a job making about 20% less than my current salary at a non-profit).
Go for it EasyBreezy, life is to short not to enjoy what you do during your waking hours. The longer I live, the more I observe that people who genuinely love their life (even if they are not outwardly “successful”) seem to attract many opportunities anyway…just because they love what they do and/or are happy with their life.
I am on the uphill climb of becoming an inspirational speaker. I am currently only speaking about ten times a year but when I do know that is what I am “made” to do (beyond my all so important job of being a wife and mother…that is always primary). There is nothing more wonderful than using your gifts/passions/talents to make a difference in the lives of others…like Guy on this blog:)!
I agree Jill….I’m poor but mostly happy. Do you have a blog?
I should add…I work from home doing something I kind of like..I can almost imagine that I’m a sahm.
Wow this post is quite the gem, I must have missed it somehow…the post, and all the responses.
Ok Dawn (Lady Nemesis) I LOVE your solution. I always wear the same large sparkly cross that people comment on, but I don’t usually take mass transist, so don’t know about just walking around normally with a large Bible in hand, but I will get a little purse one and break it out for effect. I wonder how the God Bless you brother greeting might might come off…but I’m going to try it out!
I’m bumping this so everyone can get another look.
Hello! Can you point me in the direction of articles or series about being indirect? I’ve read the Submission vs Submissive series. Are there others you would suggest? Thank you so much.
Erna
Your Highness Erna,
I haven’t the time to search. Related terms for searching the CONTENTS page and daily posts include
seed planting, indirectly, and directly.
Guy