1434. Fidelity without His Devotion? Unlikely! — Part I


Her Highness Denise at post 1428 asked for my perspective on two options. She expressed them so effectively that I copy them here.

Option A: “Some women embrace the idea that you are single until married, meaning that even though you might spend time with someone in a romantic context, until a man proposes, you remain free to entertain the interest of whomever you desire should you choose to do so.”

Option B: “Others claim that this is disloyal, unfaithful, etc. and that if you are seriously interested in someone, that interest ought to be expressed through a committed, exclusive dating relationship where both parties are off limits to anyone else so long as you are an ‘official’ couple.”

Option A may produce relationship disappointments. But generally it’s far superior to Option B. Today I go with Option A which:

  1. Challenges each man to try harder. Men are more predictable and worthy when rising to challenges that weaken their self-centeredness.    
  2. Takes advantage of the male nature; men don’t appreciate unearned gifts. If she’s dates others, every interested guy sees that he has to earn her; she won’t be giving herself to him before marriage. It makes his self-questioning shift to what kind of wife will she be? That makes him want to gain further information aka try harder. The more he thinks of things related to marriage, the more his subconscious mind tends to take him in that direction.
  3. Lets men know indirectly that they have to earn her, make themselves worthy of her. If a date can’t grasp the consequences of her indirectness, he won’t likely be able to understand her wishes in a marriage.
  4. Teaches men to find new ways to please her. Old ways don’t work or she wouldn’t be dating other guys. Right?
  5. It puts all pursuers in competition with her as the judge of who best fits her requirements and expectations.
  6. It puts her in competition with each pursuer, which is the superior position for bachelorettes. 
  7. Empowers her to shop comparatively within the romantic context of her life. How much romance does she need and who provides it the best?
  8. Helps her determine which dates show affection because it pleases them to please her. Or determine which guys show affection to get something. How well do her dates fulfill her wishes for affection?
  9. Enables her to uncover the romantic capability and potential of each man she dates. Firsthand experience is more reliable for brightening a woman’s future than dreamy wishes and hopes.
  10. Finally, the coup de grace. This mental process prepares him for her capture. Each guy truly interested in her and worthy of becoming Mr. GoodEnough thinks like this. It preys on his mind before, during, and after all dates. Does she have sex with all those other dudes, dates, guy, friends, employers? Why don’t I rate sex if they do? But do they? Can I be sure? How can I find out? If she does it with me then she obviously does it with the others. If she won’t yield to me, then probably/perhaps/hopefully she doesn’t yield for the others. Hmmm! Over time and much less consciously, his mind drifts toward this: If she doesn’t yield to them either, it means that she may be good enough to be my wife. Hmmm! I’ll have to get to know her better. Improve my dating techniques, maybe please her more. But conquering her for sex still comes first.

Option A helps a woman if she plays her cards correctly. Option B is far riskier. The cards are stacked against her. Women as the relationship experts should be aware of the differences. The next three daily articles cite many weaknesses in Option B.

26 Comments

Filed under How she wins

26 responses to “1434. Fidelity without His Devotion? Unlikely! — Part I

  1. KP

    I actually completely agree with this. In college I would always joke that “you were single til you’re married.” People still think that therei s something wrong with me because i have no interested in a “commited relationship” (although I think those rarely exist esp. for the years that some of them take place). I think that when you completely commit to some one for such a long period of time it makes a men less likely to marry. Men get a sense of I have her, now what? I made the mistake of dating some one for several years which was something that I never did and have not done since. I had to learn that that was not the path to a husband (not one that you want) and that was not the type of relationship that I wanted as a “single girl”.

  2. Kiara

    i look forward to reading the weaknesses in “option b” because i bet they’re as weak as this article here.

    Your Highness Kiara,

    Welcome aboard. Its a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.

    Dropping an accusatory opinion without explanation is not far removed from stereotyping and name calling. Can you do better? To see Option B you’ll have to come back for three days straight (FRI-SUN)unless personal weakness prevents it.

    Guy

  3. That Horse Is Dead...

    Guy, this is entirely a new concept to me. I’ve read other posts of yours that separate the different stages of courtship until marriage and I remember thinking about the way you explained engagement as a time of discovery…again entirely new (if you could list those posts that would be helpful). Since highschool, it was engrained by peers that exclusivity was the goal and to date others after this point was “cheating”. I’m sure I’m not alone that this adolescent view has carried over into adult years. If I were dating a man for 6 months and discovered he went out with another woman I would be hurt to say the least. How does a woman (or man) accomplish this without the appearance of game-playing or manipulation? I get the benefits and don’t disagree, but can’t wrap my head around how it looks practically in relationship?

    Your Highness That Horse is Dead…,

    Sorry, but you’re looking for answers that can’t be formulated. Their Highnesses Zabeth and L also wonder what Option A looks like in today’s social marketplace.

    First, I can neither devise a model nor offer advice of how Option A works. This series provides a comparative analysis from which individuals can learn how to shape their own lives.

    Second, to save you some trouble, I’ll repeat what I told Her Highness Denise nearby:
    She started it with this: “The boyfriend/girlfriend mindset is so prevalent socially that people will often assume that there’s something wrong or you’re lonely because you aren’t in a ‘couples’ relationship.”

    When women follow the crowd instead of their heart, they fail two ways. (1) They’re untrue to themselves because they compromise their expectations to meet both female and male values not tailored to their own self-interest, self-image, and conscience. (2) Any eagerness to capture a boyfriend transmits loud signals that she’s desperate or nearly so and thus is willing to provide sex with just a minimum of masculine pressure. When she tries to defend her chasteness against such mistaken inferences, she comes across as prude, creep, or religious nut.

    And now I’ll add another way to fail: (3) As in politics, when you join the collective you abandon your individual desires and freedom. When you adopt the pop culture mentality so thoroughly dominated by men, you encourage their less than fully respectful treatment who you are as both person and female.

    Guy

    • I agree, that’s the precisely the question I have too; however, That Horse Is Dead articulated it much better than I could. Since so many were ingrained with these notions about exclusivity it would be helpful to see how this would look/play out in real life.

      Your Highness Zabeth,
      I responded to Denise but forgot to tell you. See her comment above.
      Guy

    • That Horse Is Dead...

      It may be less a factor of following the crowd and more a lack of good role modeling by parents (divorce, “latch key” households, etc). I appreciate your frankness with “just do it” — but that’s kind of like telling an 8 year old, “Here’s my credit card, just fill up the gas tank till it’s full.” It helps to have someone model what it looks like practically and not all of us are fortunate to have a Guy and Mrs. Guy in our past. I want to undo the wrong ways of thinking and doing but theory doesn’t really help me see how that plays out in real life when feelings have developed for someone without it coming across as playing games or manipulating.

      Your Highness That Horse Is Dead,

      We’ve disconnected. My abruptness is no doubt to blame, but I’m probably going to do it again.

      By “just do it” I meant you have to start somewhere sometime. Having started you then compile experience (which means you make and digest mistakes) that guides you for the future. Of course role models help but this ‘role’ has no model to pass on. However, Her Highness KP’s response to L nearby describes a good strategy. I suggest these tactics for serial dating:

      + Never show your eagerness to see him or show surprise where he takes you (unless it’s unacceptable, of course).
      + Smile a lot. I say again, smile a lot. More!
      + Get involved with what he talks about, but don’t let it remind you of something you want to tell about yourself. Let him disclose and you dispose.
      + Disclose only what’s absolutely necessary to keep from being insincere. Truthfulness does not require full disclosure. Everybody has hidden agendas.
      + Make him earn everything that he learns about you. It should start with inquisitive interest and the preferred sequence is this: you as person first, woman second, and sex object third.
      + If and when he brings up the subject of sex, dodge and change the subject. If he keeps trying to return to subject, register displeasure and make preparations for heading home.
      + Don’t thank him for doing his duty, i.e., opening the door, seating you at table, paying the check, etc. The reward of your pleasant smile registers much better with him.
      + Reserve your thanks and rewards for what he sees as special accomplishments, such as cooking for you or taking you to an expensive event. Or for his unexpected accomplishments such as bringing flowers or completing an enjoyable date.

      Those are tactics and not rules. Many others exist on the blog especially in two series, HardToGet and Virtual Virginity. Use what fits until you figure out what works for you.

      Guy

  4. Denise

    Thanks so much for answering so throughly. I look forward to the follow-up articles.

  5. L

    Guy,

    Long time lurker here. I was really excited to see this post because reading the series before, this exact issue – “single until married” – came into my mind. I would like to move to this model, particularly because I think it allows a woman to keep clearer judgement about the men in her life. However, like “That Horse Is Dead,” I would like to see some practical examples of how this works in everday life, particularly over a longer period of time. I can see how this might work for 3-4, maybe even 6, months. But after that … I find myself at a bit of a loss. Particularly because of some of the things “That Horse Is Dead,” mentions in her post. What does this look like after 6 months or a year? Or does this model perhaps lead to a reduced period between dating/courting and marriage? Do you move from this model to marriage? What about the engagement? So many things to think about … I can’t wait till tomorrow!

    Your Highness L,
    Welcome aboard. Its a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.
    Guy

    P.S. I responded to Denise and forgot to tell you. See her comment above.
    G.

    • KP

      The problem I have found is that if you are serious about marrying, dating for over a year is well not going to lead to marriage in many cases (not all). I will say yes if you and your mate are working towards a goal (graduating, for instances) waiting would be in the cards but so would their clear intent to marry. I think the point may be woman give exclusivity over too easily. In the past I have, we all have. It should be earned over months and the person should know, I am seeing other people (even if you aren’t “wink”). The beginning to exclusive dating should be a true intent to marry not because you want to be girlfriend and boyfriend. That doesn’t lead anywhere fast.

      • In response to what KP said, I think a lot of women are really eager to just be able to say they have a boyfriend. The boyfriend/girlfriend mindset is so prevalent socially that people will often assume that there’s something wrong or you’re lonely because you aren’t in a “couples” relationship. The transparency of Facebook may have exacerbated this. I must say that besides a couple of small errors, I’ve generally always followed this advice and feel like I’ve had better/more frequent opportunities to seriously discuss marriage with suitors than average. I’ve hardly acted with perfect wisdom, but I think my positive experiences have helped me to be more confident that I’m in a better position doing things this way. I would absolutely love to see more women do the same because I feel like the current dynamic puts women in the position of hoping they’re going to be the lucky one he finally makes a real commitment to. And the more time and energy you invest in something, the more you want to stick around to get a return on that investment. And in the meantime other men who might be more seriously minded aren’t even given a chance.

        Your Highness Denise,

        You drove the nail home with this: “The boyfriend/girlfriend mindset is so prevalent socially that people will often assume that there’s something wrong or you’re lonely because you aren’t in a ‘couples’ relationship.”

        When women follow the crowd instead of their heart, they fail two ways. (1) They’re untrue to themselves because they compromise their expectations to meet both female and male values not tailored to their own self-interest, self-image, and conscience. (2) Any eagerness to capture a boyfriend transmits loud signals that she’s desperate or nearly so and thus is willing to provide sex with just a minimum of masculine pressure. When she tries to defend herself against a guy’s mistaken inferences, she comes across as prude, creep, or religious nut.

        Guy

      • L

        KP,

        Thank you for the feedback. While I have seen several cases of couples being together a year to two years and marrying, I also agree that women become exclusive too easily. I believe the way most women date results in what I call “boyfriend/girlfriend by default” – where you start off only seeing one man, spend a lot of time with him, and become attached and then its like … “Well we’ve been spending sooo much time together, exclusively, we NEED to be together.” Then the relationship may or may not happen. If not >> Enter hurt woman. If it does happen, I think it can create a snowball effect – you get married, have kids, etc. all because you spent too much time around one man and then wanted to recoup your time investment. I wonder if this might be why we see the increase in divorce.

        KP, if you wouldn’t mind, would you tell us exactly how you broached this subject with men? Do you tell them initially? From the very start? Or do you tell them a little later? Say after a month or two? And what did you say?

        Also, I am interested in hearing some of the reactions you may have had from men, which I imagine range from being willing to work with option A to looking at you like your head is spinning around.

        • KP

          Sorry this is a delayed response: I don’t bring this up early. I just got out try to have fun and meet a new person. I think that the full disclosure is overrated. Now keep in mind I wasn’t always this way, it tooks some years. You don’t have to lay your cards on the table and say I am dating other people and I’m not going to sleep with you and we aren’t going to be a forever girl/boyfriends. Just accept appropriate invites (ones asked for well in advance) turn down the ones you don’t want to go to and no you don’t have to give a reason (their minds wander on their own, even if you are at home he will think that you are seeing some one else). You can’t dictact relationships and how they will go.
          I know that taking this back seat approach can be a little much but when I thought about it it was when I didn’t take the backseat and let things happen that my relationships fell to pieces. Think about it, when you try to force thing (a man) it never turns out the way you want.

          BTW I agree that yes some people can date anad be exclusive for years get married and be happy, but I think that therei s an age group that is more will to except this, whne you are out on your own and seriously looking for a mate I doubt you (or a serious guy that is trying to nab you) would want to date for 2 plus years. When I was younger I wouldn’t have cared but I would do this now.

          Your Highness KP,
          You’ve told your story well. Thanks.
          Guy

  6. anon

    I like option A as well. But how does it look in 2011! Because many people sleep around even if she doesnt. WILL HE KNOW if shes a lady and keeps her sexuality in check? And just have a good time?

    Your Highness Anon,
    Let mystery work its way through the masculine mind. The more attractive a woman becomes as feminine, lady-like, and morally upright, the less likely he perceives her to be sleeping around. The more appealing she becomes as good mate for him, the more credit he gives her for being hardtoget with other guys too. See how it works. When he wants something bad enough, he sees nothing but the good in it. Or at least he overlooks earlier suspicions and take his chances.
    Guy

  7. Lin

    I agree that option A is the best. But how does it work in real life. I live in a community where that kind of behavior (not been clearly exclusive to one man (whether there is intent to marry or simply dating or boyfriend) will immediately get you labelled a w***e ( pardon the expression) or cheap and easy. As Anon rightly mentioned many people sleep around so how would they know that you aren’t?

    Its so bad that even men that I do some business/work with that I interact with often enough and some male acquaintances are suspect. I dont sleep around or do friends with benefits. However I am now on the lookout for a Mr Good Enough and I have studied a lot of material on this blog. I would love to follow option A. Realistically how do I do it? Beats me!

    Your Highness Lin,

    Yes, they’re labelled a w***e by married women because circulating gals attract men too easily. You’ll see the following masculine belief in #1435 just posted. “Gals with boyfriends must be providing sex. Gals circulating without boyfriends must not be providing sex, and so they offer the most, the greatest, and the most appealing challenges.” Wives, on the other hand see differently. They see circulating women as loose and threatening to their marriage. Women presume married women are less a threat to their marriage and so they encourage marriage. Men look for sexual opportunity and take advantage of what’s offered. If women require marriage for frequent and convenient sex, then men will marry and stay married. If women have no such requirement, men disdain marriage except when highly beneficial to their comfort and way of life. Men only NEED a place to flop, eat, throw his things, and prepare for tomorrow’s battles.

    Realistically, how do you use Option A? Just do it. Quit looking to tie a guy down. Don’t let him talk you into Option B as his strategy for closing the deal on getting you in bed. The more he pushes for sex, the more you pull away and seem to circulate to avoid his tying you down. Make him earn your obligation toward him.

    When he’s more interested in you than in himself and more interested in ‘us’ than in you, your courtship may be starting up. Even then, don’t try to negotiate him into an Option B agreement. He’s much more likely to become devoted to you without you pressuring him that way. When he’s devoted, you’ve won his fidelity. Then the burden shifts to you to sustain it.

    Guy

  8. gonemaverick

    Sir Guy,

    about a month or so ago, i was in panic mode and asked for your opinion. one of my suitors had seen me at an event i didn’t know he would be at with a new suitor and was visibly upset. this after he had asked about other girls he may/or may not be interested in (i figured to make me panic and chase) from a mutual friend.

    your reply to me was, “i’m allowed to test drive other guys but he’s not?” if option A is the best strategy (and i completely agree because somehow i’ve always been instinctively biased towards it) why did you feel “tit for tat ” (as you put it) was justified on his part (or vice versa)?

    also, the latest suitor said to me (i suspect he has fished around for info) if he were to ask me out first, he would expect the other guy to be fizzled out. he didn’t elaborate. i didn’t ask. i must say though he has done more to woo me and is growing on me and expects option B as per church protocol. interestingly, you said in today’s post for a guy that’s already devoted, a girl wouldn’t even have to spell out the conditions of option B because the guy WANTS her in his life. and i think he does.

    thank you in advance,

    Your Highness Gonemaverick,
    The two are not connected. Option A is a female strategy but men have no obligation to honor it as such. They will pursue the gals that provide the most interest. Figuratively slap his face by shifting allegiance to another guy and you should expect a tit for tat bounce off you to another gal.
    Guy

    • Abigail

      Sir Guy, if guys “pursue the gals that provide the most interest” how are we going to “get” a guy when we act rather UNinterested.

      Sometimes I’m a bit afraid that if I take your advice too far, I’m going to end up with no one. I’m in my mid 40s so I don’t have an unlimited supply of men to choose from.

      Your Highness Abigail,

      You may be forgetting the difference between being interesting (likeable, humorous, friendly, attractive) and showing too much interest in him (which he can too easily misinterpret). Being interesting makes you appealing without him being the subject and indicates a reluctance to let him become the subject. He has to earn your pleasure by pleasing you more and more. Thus, feminine mystique. For example, watch how fast a newbie gets out of hand if you make just a few flattering comments.

      Showing interest in him makes him take charge and too easily perceive wrong messages about you. It provides ammo that he can use against you. For example: You can appear desperate. You can show fear of losing him before you capture him. You can give him advantages to figure out how to apply pressure for sex without his expecting to be stopped. Not that you intend to send those messages. He just gets his hopes up and believes what he wants to believe. He then plays his game rather than finding the ways to play your game. Playing his game tunes up his game plan to let you make yourself worthy of him (sex perhaps?).

      As to your age, any age can be beautiful if you know how to make it so. As you well know, beauty starts in the heart, uses the mirror for guidance and preparation, and your presence projects a pleasant demeanor.

      Finally, add this to your awareness today: Lack of attractiveness is the greatest factor that limits the supply of men you have to choose from. Feeling sorry for yourself is very counterproductive.

      Guy

    • gonemaverick

      gosh! i’ve come a long way! even back then Sir Guy, you were right and i am so grateful for the advice you’ve given over the years. i am a happy, confident and “likeable” girl with a devoted and loving boyfriend. and the attention i get from other men? it makes life fun! #giggling#

      Your Highness Gonemaverick,

      You’re always a pleasure to hear from. I recall when you changed screen name to impose your will and more femininity into your ranch background and onto those around you. Shifting to skirts associating with or working among ranch hands? Do I recall right? Would love to watch it.

      Memory and your giggles bring smiles.

      Guy

      • A.GuyMaligned

        Your Highness Gonemaverick,

        Here’s what you first posted with new name, Gonemaverick, back on 11/9/2010 or 181 comments ago. Thanks for the loyal reading.

        “i love the expressions” affirming self-esteem, positive self-image, and hardened self-respect” (which all contribute to being hardtoget) because once a woman cultivates these qualities, it enables her not to panic and chase a guy for fear of losing him especially when he feigns disinterest or when his “pressures become indirect and sophisticated.”

        “would not have known much about any of these things had i not stumbled upon this blog back in 2008. i have learned to be fearless and swift in putting back on the parade of passing men all those guys who just don’t cut the mustard

        “thank you Sir Guy for putting the fun back into dating.”

  9. Claire

    It’s a hard job coming around to this, but I think the light is starting to crack… & i’m afraid NOT to take your advice, LOL.

  10. L

    KP,

    Thank you for your story!

  11. confused

    Hi,
    i am currently in an “option b” long distance relationship and i seems to me that my boyfriend is taking me for granted. He always says that he’s busy, but he finds time to go out with groups of girls. He doesn’t message nor call me as much anymore. When he asked me to enter in a relationship with him, he said that it would be a committed one, to which i obliged with. I now realize how stupid that was of me. Apparently, i am the only one committed to the relationship. He has no sense of devotion of whatsoever either. Would it be alright if i were to ask advice on how to convert that “option b” to an “option a”? if that is possible.

    Thank you. 🙂

    Your Highness Confused,

    Welcome aboard. It’s a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.

    As to your faux boyfriend, dump him. He’s mentally dumped you. If you mean anything to him, he will try to make amends. In which case, start over from the very first moment as if you’d just met him.

    If you had sex with him, blame his departure on that. If not, blame yourself for trying too eagerly and prematurely to turn your hopes into reality.

    You seem pretty young, so I suggest you study both the dating and virtual virginity series listed in the CONTENTS page at blog top.

    Guy

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