It is only the day after and as I read Guy Jr’s previous post, several months past our first sex, I am fascinated to learn that he was having the thoughts of insecurity and anxiety he speaks of leading up to that particular visit. It just never occurred to me that this macho player alpha male would be nervous. Wow! And also a bit of giggling as I think back and try to picture his discomfort—once again a bit of poetic justice for a player. Especially since I was honestly having none of those doubts, but then again, I am the queen of rationalization and no regrets. I am the person who can justify eating a half gallon of ice cream at one sitting because, hey, I’m eventually going to eat it anyway—so is there really any difference in the calories today versus next week? As far as no regrets, I’ve made decisions that didn’t always turn out the way I expected and had less than fun experiences in my life, but I learned a lot along the way. So for me, no regrets, just good learning experiences.
In the week leading up to “that visit” Guy Jr. and I spent time discussing the implications of sex in our relationship and decided basically to let it ride and see how we felt when the time came. No pressure, no expectations—at least in my mind (giggling again). And in my mind, I was ready. I was closing in on 50 (ouch), had built a pretty solid relationship and trust with a man who now understood, supported and respected my very basic need for trust, security and protection. The geographical distance was not going to change anytime soon because of respective career and family commitments and personally, I wanted this type of intimacy in my life again after not having it for several years. While this may seem to some to fly in the face of WWNH, and if I were not pushing 50 (ouch), not finished raising my boys (mostly) and was at an earlier phase of life, I would agree.
I do and did understand that what WWNH teaches about sex as emotion based for women is very true, but not so for men. In fact, I asked Guy Jr. to rewrite/edit his previous post as he had referred to sex as a “pay-off”. I was initially offended, but in his male mind that is exactly what it was (sorry baby). He had stepped up his efforts to gain my trust, had learned more about me than anyone in my life previously, was kind, considerate and made me feel safe—the very things I had repeatedly told him I wanted and needed. So it seems we were both ready and frankly, I wanted to go there.
I will also add, with no disrespect intended, that WWNH has alluded that women are not wired to want sex, and I respectfully, as a female, disagree with this notion. Science can give evidence of endorphin release (one example) from orgasm that is the same in males and females. Males do not own the endorphin release and pleasurable sensation nor do I think females should feel guilty about their sexuality or need and desire for sexual relationships. However, as in eating the half gallon of ice cream, it is best enjoyed as a treat—the treat for sex is the loving, trusting, safe embrace of a solid relationship.
What Women Never Hear 
sorry but your “excuses” that your getting older and your kids are out of the house and you are lonely don’t change the fact that sex before marriage is wrong and this whole “series” flies in the face of what “wwnh” pretends to stand for.
Your Highness Hmm aka Huh?
You’re too new to WWNH to know what a half-million words express and stand for.
Guy
You’re too trusting that readers have no choice but to gush over everything you publish, even when in stark contradiction to the “principles” I’m too new to understand. Keep winking and nodding,
Huh/Hmm/Oh
I’ve been there with all the sexual feelings in the arms of alpha male. I know this is real life and how nice it feels to be desired. However, your post is a teachable moment for me and helps me to see the importance of what Guy Sr. teaches here on his blog. I can’t help feel the disappointment that you were “conquered”.
I agree. Does age make a difference with the way we approach first sex? I am 51 and have often thought about what I would do if something happened to my husband…do I change my approach to a relationship just because I am “older”?
What Guy has been teaching on this blog is that men approach sex very differently than women do….so?
Jill Farris
http://www.generationalwomanhood.wordpress.com
Your Highness Jill,
With many more years of experience, who’s to say what they will do when they must decide how to merge their character with that of another to produce a brighter future and fulfill female dreams that have been modified by many decades of experience? With sufficient self-respect and self-confidence, newly developing self-interest guides women. If they’re used to doing the right things to brighten their future, they will continue.
Guy
Granted this is only a “glimpse” into your life, Lauren, and your feelings are strong…but if I were your girlfriend I would tell you to proceed with caution. No offense Guy Jr.
Your Highness That Horse is Dead,
Caution is much more effective before than after first sex together. It’s a conclusion easily drawn from WWNH.
Guy
Agreed!!!!
I too am not very “excited” about this post or series to be perfectly honest. Oh well to each their own. There isn’t always lessons for everyone in everything.
Your Highness Kaikou,
The lessons you may have missed are shown in post 1500.
Guy
I’ve always thought that sex and food are linked. Years ago, women didnt binge eat like they do today as much (were all getting fatter) also many years ago, women pretended they didnt like sex as much so the alpha male would come up to her standard. Women PRETENDED:: probably because of ‘charm school’ and fear of pregnancy. IMO GOD gave the men a stronger sex drive so they could develop a strong work ethic, settle down and raise a family. Today theyre so many passive/aggressive guys out there itll make your head spin. They think if the women wants to be more aggressive they let them but theyre STILL MEN. now men are playing the old fashoned game of hard to get and young pretty girls are being shortchanged
“I’ve always thought that sex and food are linked.”
Wow, this is an excellent thought, Anon…I never noticed this asociation before, but I must say, it is an interesting one.
I wonder how this could be? Is it a simple case of promiscuous women bingeing more simply because they are just generally less disciplined? What about the natural ageing process which causes weight gain anyway? In any case, it would appear to me that the most promiscuous women are in fact generally more attractive and therefore slim, no? Am I totally wrong in my assumptions?
(Why do I get this sinking feeling that indeed I am? :-))
I would be really interested in your thoughts…I am not sure why this fascinates me so, but it does!
BTW what im saying doesnt relate to the subject BUT, my 22yo cousin and her 25 yo husband just got married today and spending their honeymoon. What fascinated me about them is that they NEVER shared a ‘lip kiss’ until her father gave her away although theyve share affection on facebook cheek kissses even hand kisses (old fashoned)
Sex ties people spiritually.. You become one with that person. Married or not. I even had my mistakes with men on that accord. I may be wrong but i think Lauren needs to break it off for a while like 6 mos or so until the relationship goes any further
If you do a Google search “site:wwnh.wordpress.com after conquest”, there are 610 post results where Guy Sr. talks about what happens after conquest…and many of us (from experience) hit our heads with regret. I don’t think this should turn into a bash, however…you can’t expect that a blog for women won’t be opinionated!
Your Highness That Horse is Dead,
Thanks for expanding my abilities for google searches.
You may have missed this WWNH premise: Talking about what happens after conquest, I describe how the male and female natures interact and differ as if each partner were not filled with emotions, experiences, and beliefs. It’s pure nature against nature. Guy Jr. and Lauren don’t qualify for those conditions.
Guy
What is the takeaway from this in relation to what women never hear?? This IS what women hear, personified and there’s no way I’d point a young lady to this. I have enjoyed this blog before but I think this whole series is an abuse of its audience and contradicts what this blog claims to stand for. To me it’s like a TV preacher saying one true thing, then saying 99 ridiculous things. Can’t say he didn’t say something true once.
I’m just glad some readers have put it to the smell test. The authors have spent 90% of their writing bragging about alpha males and players and cuss words and nakedness and baby boomer values (relative term?) and popular girls, and 10% spinning that they can reap the values of wwnh without “paying the dues” because it’s inconvenient when you’re middle age (not so), and that a decent, stable, loving relationship is the threshold for sex? (I hope both of you got tested for STDs.)
We all have the right to live our own lives and have our own beliefs and disagree about everything, but for Sir Guy to endorse this by publishing it here is insulting!
Your Highness Clara,
Welcome aboard. It’s a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.
What is the takeaway that women never hear? Try the seven bullets in today’s post 1500. Ever hear them before?
You say my publishing TRUTH is insulting. To whom?
Guy
There is only one absolute Truth, and the rest is opinion. Including this blog. I’ve gleaned a lot of great insight from this blog — primarily that of the value of a chaste woman, virtual virginitiy, forgiveness of self and recovery, and change of thought regarding committed relationships prior to marriage and qualifying a man as Mr. Good Enough rather than Mr. Right. I’ve also had to use discernment when Sir Guy’s teachings don’t line up with the Word of God. In all things, take it to God’s Word and see what He has to say about it. And it is in His Truth that caution is advised (whether pre or post conquest), “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!” 2 Cor 10:12…the nature is able to be deceived because of our emotions and rationalizations. Thanks Lauren and Guy Jr. for your honesty and willingness to allow us to self-examine from your experience.
The TRUTH is, and the FACTS are that this series ends with a woman having sex with a man to whom she is not married. The Bulletin describing the series advertises it as a woman taming a player, presumably using the blog’s advice. I do not begrudge the sins or mistakes of the authors, nor have I any right. Yes, it’s real life, yes it happens, but because of those FACTS I can’t play along like this story fits the model of the blog’s banner for restoring feminine virtue, etc. Values are as values do. The TRUTH doesn’t change once you hit a certain age.
If you beg to differ, you have that right. If you seek to further justify, keep on, but I would ask on behalf of the world reading this blog,
please stop gratuitously talking about the importance of Christ and Christianity and the Bible, and then popping off with junk like this!
Your Highness Clarene,
Misinterpretations have stirred your anger. I regret that.
Guy
Lauren and the Guy(s) don’t seem idiotic, so I don’t think the backlash was unpredictable. Just move on and move forward. I look forward to Sir Guy’s post on his return. Thank you Lauren and Guy Jr. for sharing your story.
I’ve been very excited about these daily posts from Guy, Jr. and Lauren because I thought they were really going somewhere. I thought we were going to see a return to the “old paths” which was courtship leading to marriage. I was even thinking that Lauren would pull out my old line which was “If you want me, then find a way to marry me.” I felt let down with this last post. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best!
Your Highness Miss Terri,
The marriage model at your young age differs greatly from the relationship model of a woman at age 50. Study how Lauren does it, and you’ll have a better understanding of your task when next qualifying Mr. GoodEnough. She summarizes it stupendously well in post 1500.
Guy
I have enjoyed this real life story of how two people with life experience (in their 50s) and who understand the principles of WWNH, have developed and modified one another to meet their expectations AND did the same to meet the other persons. This certainly helps me as a woman in who is also in her early 50s.
Every womans’ experience is unique as she cultivates a relationship with a man. and there are sometimes exceptions to “rules”. Strategic rule bending or breaking made with THOUGHTFUL consideration to the consequences, combined with time, effort and energy made towards making sure her pre-qualifying standards are being met, I am glad to see have worked with Lauren and Guy Jr’s real life experience.
While I was initially surprised by the direction the relationship took, I also was happy to see that the direction was made thoughtfully and after Lauren was seeing the changes (that are outlined in post 1500) in Guy Jr’s behavior that she needed and had confidence (trust) in.
Thank you Lauren and Guy Jr for sharing your story!
Lauren:
I totally understand your rationale for engaging in an intimate relationship with Guy Jr. We ladies have been given wise guidance by Sir Guy but, ultimately, it’s up to every woman to make the choice regarding sexual relations based on her discernment of the male’s personality and her comfort with his level of commitment. I’m 51 years old, divorced, actively dating, and want to remarry. I have made the decision that the next man I have sex with will be my husband but who knows what I will decide based on how the gentleman presents himself over time. I am not a rigid person and there are no absolutes in life. We all have to make the best decision we can based on the circumstances at hand. I’m glad that you, after carefully vetting Guy Jr. (a man you’ve known for most of your life), decided to move forward. I, too, try to live my life with NO REGRETS. In fact, that statement is my mantra. I wish you much happiness in this new stage of your relationship with Guy Jr.
Lady Arabella Victoria
I would like to thank everyone who has responded to our series and encourage you to hold true to yourselves and your beliefs as I have done. The fact that we all view our lives and experiences differently and want and need different things is what makes us unique and will encourage us to find the right man for each of us. In the fairy tales it is easy to assume that the princess will kiss the frog, he will become a prince and they will live happily ever after. My reality is not a fairy tale. I am a 49 year old woman who fell in love with a man who lives in another state, I have two college age boys who still require guidance, one of which has special needs and requires more support than the other. I have aging parents who require my help in the place where I currently live. With today’s economic climate and Guy Jr. and I both closer to retirement than we like to admit, it is difficult to leave a job or career (much less sell homes) in hopes of starting over somewhere else. I will not speak for Guy Jr., as I respect his ability to do so for himself. However, after everything is said and done, we have been able to build a strong, committed relationship that while not perfect in anyone’s mind, is the best one for us with all the extenuating circumstances we are facing in our lives. I have no regrets on the path I have chosen for myself. I wish you all the best on your own personal journey.
Lauren
I was a little disappointed to learn that you and Guy Jr. had unmarried sex, however, I will try to glean what I can from the series.
I too am older, and I can certainly appreciate that marriage is the last thing on most modern men’s minds. I also believe that in times past, people weren’t socialize to be obsessed with sex as they are now, into their 40s, 50s and beyond. It’s a very strange and rather unhappy situation many of us find ourselves in these day. But if being a Christian was easy, everyone be one. It’s not for the faint of heart.
I do appreciate your honesty Guy Jr. and Lauren.
I’m disappointed that this couple didn’t follow the no sex before marriage priciples discussed on this blog, but most happy couples don’t. Waiting until marriage has become a thing of the past for couples of all ages.
With these things I can usually see both sides of the issue. I think Lauren and Guy Jr. give a great example with respect to communication and forgiveness. Lauren’s list at 1500 is helpful and speaks very well of her. I learned from it.
At the same time I perceive this slight feeling of what I can only identify as betrayal. As Guy Sr. has posted elsewhere, the female nature absorbs guilt, and WWNH sets such high standards (seemingly astronomical at times) that many women who follow have read and aspire to live up to. We (or I at least) come for encouragement that to do things the “right” way is worth it and to continually shore up our defenses against the prevailing mentality around us that we can do otherwise and still have our happily ever after.
I have to admit that the question of “Does it really take all that?” resonates with me daily. The fact of the matter is that women all over are in happy relationships who do not practice virginity—virtual or actual—and this post did not help in fighting the good fight on that particular front. So, to read this post on WWNH reminds me of the fact that at the end of the day, I have to live my life in obedience to God because I’ll answer to Him, not because I’ve adopted societal guilt or a conservative ideology regarding my sexuality as a woman. I think other women should also forget the societal guilt and ideologies in favor of simply living for Jesus.
I see women get engaged and married every day (sometimes long-term marriages) who do not practice the principles of WWNH in the least—not just with sex, with other principles as well. Guy Jr. and Lauren are not married as I understand it, which makes me ask, “What makes this different than other people in the culture simply doing whatever works for them?” Guy Sr.’s wisdom has been so compelling because it has been proven in his life over decades. The relationship that we are reading of here has not yet transcended beyond what we find everyday (at least not in my particular experience) from people who wouldn’t agree with Guy Sr. at all. Again, not a criticism, but it seems too soon to speak.
In the end, the biggest thing that sticks out to me here is that Lauren is and has always been THE Number 1 in Guy Jr’s mind. I really believe (and I’d love other opinions on it) that relationships essentially begin and end with the man’s perception that this woman is amazing. All women have to do is stay up on that pedestal. Lauren’s first sex with Guy Jr. did not knock her off that pedestal in *his* eyes, so their relationship continues to work.
Regarding Lauren’s caveat about female sexuality: Many women today still live with ideas of guilt and shame surrounding their sexuality, and they make their decisions not out of faith in God or even self-interest, but because they are attempting to live up to societal images of what a “good” woman is supposed to be. This sense of guilt and shame is why many women come down so hard on others who have sex outside of marriage or who are more sexually active than others. It seems like those other women are getting away with the “forbidden” (but strongly desired) without reaping the negative consequences of it.
Masculine-style sexual behavior is the product of feminism–the random hookups, the raunchiness. But a woman’s libido is not. Nor is her desire to feel sexually desired. This blog discusses natures, and I have read that the female nature is particularly prone to guilt. I understand the sexual revolution to have been a mass psychological unburdening of the heavy guilt and condemnation placed on women’s sexuality. For that reason, posts like this can be a hidden minefield because they hit at all that false guilt that society through the ages has heaped upon women for something completely healthy (and good in its proper context–marriage!).
Really, I think that a lot of the judgment toward Lauren and other women like her is envy. Lauren appears to have a very clear sense of self and is wholly secure in who she is and what she wants in life, and therefore was able to successfully create something that meets her needs and desires at the moment. I think that most women spend much of their time and energy year after year attempting to get to such a place, even if they don’t realize that’s what they’re looking for.
Waiting till marriage is God’s standard. But what I’ve learned from this story is that neither virtual nor actual virginity will help you in your relationships if you don’t know how to be true to your self and your best interests.
If I am envious of Lauren it is only that apparently she was attractive enough to be someone’s number one. Attractive people can often get away with a bit more than average people. That’s not sour grapes talking, that’s just life. Still for me, without the devotion and commitment of marriage, I would not feel happy in a sexual relationship, I would feel used. That’s just me though.
I’m still sorting through everything trying to figure out “the secret” to getting a decent man interested in me…then devoted to me. It was easier when I was younger (ie. more attractive).
I think Lauren has provided some clues. My main take-away at the moment is, always be willing to walk…you may end up alone, but at least you’ll have your pride.
That seems like a great take-away, Abigail! Thanks for mentioning it. 🙂
I am deeply grateful for all I have learned about the male nature from WWNH. I can’t begin to express how this blog has helped me. I also appreciate Guy Jr.’s and Lauren’s willingness to share their history. It takes no small amount of courage to open up one’s love life to comment. There has been sharp disagreement with whether they “should have or shouldn’t have.” The essential question comes down to this: If I believe in “no premarital sex,” what is the basis of my belief? Throughout this blog, Guy makes a strong case for women not yielding to sex because it is in their own self-interest. I agree. He has shared so many insights that have helped me “brighten my future.” As a Christian though, the choice is whether or not I will still obey God when it seems to hurt my own bright future? In other words, is self-interest the highest calling in my life? If a person is a believer, he or she has a simple (not easy) choice: to obey or not to obey. I know that this is not the world view of everyone who reads and contributes here. If a person is not a follower of Christ, it’s an exercise in futility to expect him or her to behave like one. Guy has said several times that “Faith is not believing that God can, it’s believing that He will.” My faith compels me to trust that God delivers on the abundant life He promises, even when it seems to come at the cost of something I want very much.
Your Highness Tania,
Thanks for the clear writing and judgment calls. You’ve made yourself highly admirable in my eyes.
You’ve also inspired me to describe the differences in individuals this way: We’re all motivated by self-interest. Everyone follows that mandate according to their beliefs that guide whether and how much they live up to the expectations of themselves, others, political ideology, and a morality system specified by other than Man, namely God. Most of us mix and match.
Guy
I really think scriptures or Gods word is in a sense just trying to describe the same thing that Guy is. God knows our natures and he want’s us to be happy. He created the whole plan. All the rules from the good book just came from peoples knowledge and interpretations of what works best. Preparing for a life and raising children creates a whole different set of needs and expectations for a woman. Mainly marriage. Where as already settled in life and caring for aging parents and maintaining home life for children and jobs. I think this couple did a fine job in building a committed relationship that works for them and I have no doubt that God sees that and their commitment to all of it and each other and in no way condemns them to hell for enjoying the sexual aspect of that commitment. God is not anti sex. If guy Jr happens to break that commitment then he would break it weather they were married or not. No one has the right to judge these full grown adults because their commitment to their families and their responsibilities takes president over Some scripture on marriage. It’s a piece of paper when you think about it. It’s no more binding that the relationship it is founded on. I for one found this very helpful as it relates to more of a real life scenario that I face. Guy does not preach religion. He teaches us women/ male nature and how to use our nature to get the things we need from a relationship, before we open our hearts and souls to a man by giving him our bodies. We women have sex drives just as strong as men. But I believe they are driven by our emotional needs. As our mens in a way. The shame for those drives has got to end. It all comes down to caring about ourselves and others enough so that we can all have those emotional needs met along with being sexually fulfilled in a healthy relationship. It all comes down to doing what it takes create a healthy relationship instead of letting our carnal natures short change us into something less fulfilling. The easiest way for God or Guy to get that point across is to say wait til marriage. But there are far to many variable in life for it to be taken so literally. The real life series is a perfect example of how the teachings works in one of many real life situations. I may get rakes through the coals for my opinion. But yes I am a christian and I have a very close relationship with God. He wants me to be happy and not get my heart ripped out. He gave me life that I may have joy. Not just follow a bunch of rules because he demands strict obedience to his words. God does not shame people. He loves them weather they learn the hard way or not. We should not try to shame those gracious enough to help teach us as what they have learned on their journey. . I see nothing conflicting at all here! Outside of the comments preaching being christian and judging. Good grief!
Hi Stephanie, you say “Not just follow a bunch of rules because he demands strict obedience to his words” what do you mean by this? Who is he?
are you saying, and this got nothing or little to do with the post, that if God has set some rules/commandments that we don’t have to stick to it or obey cos he want us happy?! I ask as you mentioned you are christian and that you do have a very close relationship with God. Would like to pick your thoughts on this.
cheers.
He as in God. Commandments are good and wise to follow. But God gave a free will to chose for a reason. Religion is pretty hard to teach. Or should I say Godliness. Religion almost detracts from it by making it all about following rules. We came her to learn and grow and of coarse God would like for us not to have to learn the hard way on everything. But sometimes that is the best way to learn. We came here to learn and if we blindly follow rules or didn’t have the free will to make mistakes’ We wouldn’t be able to learn from them. We all came here to learn and grow and overcome what ever we need to. I just get frustrated by some of the responses to this post acting like it ruined everything Guy has been trying to teach us. People want to put it all down to don’t have sex before marriage because God said so. Thinking this is some virtue in and of its self. When God never commanded it. He advised it but mainly he says if one has sex then they should get married because it’s a commitment in and of its self. The sin lies where people just have sex for selfish reasons without wanting to have any further connection to a person. Sex was not meant to be selfish but many people make it that way. But to just not do it before marriage regardless of what the circumstance are misses the whole point of why it’s wise to wait. Guy teaches from the aspect of young girls securing a good mate to raise a family with. This changes when the families are made and other goals and obligations are priority. Hopefully Laren got what she needed from this relationship before she chose to have sex with him. If they are committed to each other I don’t see God condemning them because marriage is difficult at that point. But she could still get hurt and have to learn a painful lesson I don’t know? I don’t trust any men any more myself so I guess I was just hopeful that this whole process can work. I hope that a man really can fall for the good things a woman has to offer and is not easily led astray because of quicker hassle free sex. But I wonder sometimes. Men can get sex anywhere even pornography and I’d like to believe they have deeper needs that this. Or what have we really got to offer and why would we even want to be with a man ourselves if not? Waiting for marriage to have sex is probably the best way to tell if someone is really interested in you. But in the real world if we are older, most men are used to getting sex pretty regularly. And most aren’t willing to even try to win a woman over if they are not getting any sex from them as part of the relationship. Because they feel it is a needed important aspect of committing to someone. How are we supposed to expect a man who is used to regular sex to give up sex completely just to pursue us for a year or two for marriage? Most men are not even capable of this. Most women need that sexual aspect of a relationship as well. But sex is pointless without all the other needs being met. I just hope that men have needs other than sex alone. It doesn’t really seem to be the case and if one of the main reasons men want to be with a woman to begin with is for easy access to frequent sex? Then how are we supposed to think that he is going to cut off all of his easy access to sex just to pursue someone who wont have any with him? It kinda messes with the whole process. But that is just the real world we live in where men can get all the sex they want and the press of a button. Even if men want love and something good their sex drive doesn’t just disappear in the pursuit of it. When that drive pulls them away from us instead or propels them to want us then what do we do? If we were all virgins it might be a little different. But even virtual virginity has no place in a mans world of a virtual free for all.
Your Highness Stephanie,
You say, “If we were all virgins it might be a little different.” No it wouldn’t. After conquest, everything would return to today’s normal.
Also, “But even virtual virginity has no place in a man’s world of a virtual free for all.” Of course it does. VV attracts. It’s up to women to use it. It’s what comes after conquest that drives men away.
I explain your claims this way. Men just won’t put up with all the s*** that women spout at them all the time once a modern man acts committed or even before. Soured relationships—their own and their friends’—turn women against men and men against marriage. So, heavily blamed, men have neither interest nor incentive to stick with one woman long enough to become devoted to her—sex or no sex.
As long as women blame men, it presumes female innocence and removes responsibility to use their relationship expertise. They don’t, can’t, or won’t admit they can do something wrong. Contrary to popular opinion, men want a mate for life, but they’ve been trained otherwise by parental—including fathers—and female acceptance of feminist theory and propaganda that excuses women and blames men.
Treat men like adolescent women want to treat them, and they will not stay long. Treat them like mature men want to be treated, and they will stay.
Guy
Stephanie,
Oh my, there are times I wish I had never co-written this series. Mainly because I am so private and the judgemental criticism was unwanted and unnecessary. This is my life, my story, my decisions, my relationship and the consequences of all those are mine to bear.
Guy, Jr. and I continue to thrive in our unconventional relationship. On paper our profiles would never be linked on a Match.com type of service. However, we have managed to figure out a way that works for us amid the distance and other variables that we face. We do that with trust, respect, love and devotion for one another. Blind faith and a lot of common sense with a little bit of crazy mixed in. It’s not perfect, but nothing in real life is perfect. At our age we both have a lot of “stuff” that has to be managed and we have seemingly done that in a way that works for both of us. We are too old to have children but young enough to want to share our lives together. We love the companionship, the comfort and stability we bring to one another and yes, we enjoy our sex lives together. It is an extension of our relationship that we both desire.
This blog is more than ‘no sex before marriage’. At times I think that this aspect is too emphasized where the real teaching is in the need for respect that men desire and crave above all else. When a man feels that he is respected, needed and relied upon he will step up if truly devoted. I don’t question Guy, Jr.’s devotion and I trust him implicitly. He is capable of choosing daily how he wants to conduct himself and even though we are many times separated by hundreds of miles for weeks at a time, I never think that he will choose to hurt me in some way. In giving him that respect and trust, it allows him freedom to make the right decision for us and to be admirable to himself.
I believe Guy’s teaching about feminist behavior refers not to first generation feminism which was about women’s suffrage but about the second generation of feminism that did begin to attack men. I am an independent woman who is capable and willing to take care of and provide for myself and my family. However, I love having a committed long term man that can comfort me as I do him. In my real world that does not necessarily involve marriage.
Lauren
Lauren
Do you think that if you’d refused to have premarital sex that Guy Jr would have married you by now? I understand that you have a long distance relationship,but I’ve seen men practically move mountains to marry a woman.
Your Highness Mari,
Welcome aboard. It’s a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.
Guy
Mari,
You have no idea of the mountains that Guy, Jr. has moved for me and our relationship, but that is ours to keep and hold for ourselves. You make a very broad assumption that I want to be married. Sir Guy and I have had this discussion and we do not agree that all women aspire to marriage. While that may have been true when I was younger, it is not so now that I am in my 50’s and have raised my child and a bonus child to boot. A been there, done that, got the t- shirt thing. I am very happy where I am in my life and my relationship and love for and commitment to Guy, Jr. enhances that beyond measure. He and I have had “the marriage” discussion many times during our relationship, even before first sex. We do re-visit the topic periodically and will continue to do so, more so because questions like this are raised from outside than between us.
We do not live together and have no plans to do so. However, we both have established residences in each other’s city. There is no guarantee in our future, but that is true for any relationship or marriage. However, we remain committed and very happy and devoted.
I’m not an adolescent as Guy implies. I’m actually more old fashioned than most and I’m 44 years old. I understand why you did what you did and I’m really happy it worked out for you. I know most men are just looking for sex. I’m not afraid of them. My ex boyfriend pursued me for marriage and was able to win me and my whole family over. I trusted him and believed he would never want to hurt me. But luckily I found out b4 we were married that he had been cheating on me the whole time. He still expected me to marry him and did everything he could to convince me to stay with him. Besides give up all the easy access to sex he was getting in the meantime. I don’t know why he would want to get married but he did. He wanted the security and benefits that came with a committed relationship. He was just a sex addict and felt entitled to have both. All my love support and even respect and trust did nothing to change any of it. He had worked hard to learn how to get away with having both. We lived in the same town too. He was with me every second of my free time. He worked in commercial real estate so he could make his own schedule. I didn’t even know that it was possible to cheat with a new complete stranger everyday. But there are sites out there for specifically that. Any time of day you can find someone in your local area looking for sex. They keep it all hush hush and well I’m really just afraid to attract men at all now. Luckily most are just looking for one thing but you have to be careful because there are a lot of them out there that are looking for marriage or a committed relationship but they have no intention to commit themselves. They just want a trophy wife and someone to help uphold an impression in society. It was very hard to get away from my ex I loved him and It was very hard to believe that someone could not have any conscience at all. But I’m the only one to blame for giving him the opportunity to get to know me and what I wanted and needed in life so that he was able to give it to me or at least appear to. I’ve been reading this blog and it all makes sense and there is so much to be gained from it. But I just don’t think I will ever be able to give another man the opportunity to manipulate me like that again. I’m afraid to attract men because the ones who want to be with you most seem to be the ones that lie to you to do so. Devoted is an understatement. But maybe I just have never been with a man who was capable of real love. Men seem to just want to possess me. I liked your segment though. I like this whole site. I want to believe that there are men out there who are capable of caring and that desire the respect. I really hope that some of those alpha males out would chose to give up the free for all lifestyle they are living for someone they love. But with today’s technology most of them are unable to do so even if they want to. And I can’t fix them. I’m not a cure for their addiction as much as they would like to think I am or should be. I just don’t want to make the mistake of believing that I am worth it again just because it appears that way. I can’t watch someone 24 7. I’d not want to. I should have known better. Oh well I’m very lucky I found out b4 we got married. Not that it hurt any less. But it’s good I learned about what is really going on out there in the world today. I will not believe anyone’s words or actions again.
Your Highness Stephanie,
I had no intention to imply you were adolescent. Your previous and this comment are far too detailed for me to actually think that.
I am interested. How did you uncover boyfriend’s betrayal? Had he proposed? Had he committed? Did he state his obligations? To just you? Or others? How much selling of himself to you did he do? How far off the social reservation have men wandered? Do they now expect to live double lives?
Thanks, if you don’t mind sharing such details.
Guy
Sorry Sir Guy, I just barely noticed you had replied to my post and asked me a question. To be honest looking back I was as naive as pre adolescence. The circumstances in my situation were unique. My ex boyfriend was also my high school sweetheart. He was my first love my first kiss my first a lot of things. When he came back into my life 20 years later it was easy to believe it was meant to be. He swore he had thought of me for the last 20 years and I had him as well. Normally I would not have invested my heart or hopes in someone so quickly. No I can see that is was a red flag as to how fast pursued marriage. We dated for nine months but my intuition knew something was amiss. If I express any concern he made sure to console me on it and then go out of his way to make me feel secure in that area. I had no clue at this time that it was possible for anyone to lie with such ease and such confidence while doing it. He made his intentions very clear to me and my family from the get go to the point where they were already depending on him for things. He seemed so nice and good and supportive. That if I expressed any concern I was quickly reminded of how kind he was and of everything he had done to show is concern for me. His family was the same way. And they are really good people. Instead of trusting my gut I believed the words he said and the way he acted. I also knew he had been married for 15 years before and was known as a good family man who was active in his church. I guess it was years of practice of living a double life that got him to the point of where he really didn’t see much wrong with it. He assumed we wanted to be lied to I guess. It’s how to get along. Most people had no idea what he did. Including his family. Sometimes we would be around someone and I would get an odd feeling something wasn’t right. I live in a very religious community and the people who take part in the swinger lifestyle know the importance of being tight lipped about it. I myself had no idea that people even did that sort of thing. Or at the very least if they did they didn’t pursue monogamous people to marry. I still believe that most don’t because their conscience would not allow them to live a lie like that. I used to believe we all had a conscience. I now know that is not the case. But basically I got hurt because I chose to believe what I wanted to believe over what my gut was telling me. He did propose and give me a ring and I could have married him and he would have provided a pretty good life for me and he was quite romantic and charming. But I would have had to ignore the nagging feeling in my gut to do so and that would never happen. I did it for nine months and as happy as I was to have someone “so great” in my life. It was making me sick and feeling somewhat crazy. Luckily one day I stopped telling myself I should trust all the kind things he’d done for me and I made a phone call to his ex. Something that was totally inappropriate. But I’m glad I did. He had been trying to sleep with her again in the last few months. She assured me she wanted nothing to do with him but that didn’t really make much of a difference as far as where I was concerned. It was only my own expectations being shattered. Most of them were based off of a childhood fantasy I’d been entertaining for the last 20 years. He had every excuse in the book and begged me for another chance. I half brokenheartedly gave it to him foolishly believing I was special. How could he not see it? But for as special as he made me feel most of the time It wasn’t long before I found out the truth to the double life he led and to what some people are actually capable of. I was forced to face the very fear I had been running from since I was a child. My step father had the same sick disease and as much as I swore I would never end up in the same situation that my mother did , it was inevitable for me to be able to heal from it. I can see now why I was so blind. Our minds deny those things to painful to process. He is the only one who I would have opened my heart up enough to do it. Most men I would have found some excuse not too. It’s not been fun or easy and it’s been a long process that I am not all the way through yet. It is simply just something that I had to do to put the pieces of me back together that were shattered when I was to young to have any choice in the matter.
I had worked so hard and got so far in life and relationships. I had amazing experiences in life and with God. I had got to the point where I was able to open myself fully to trust and learned what it takes to make a relationship work. looking back I can see in all the relationships I had how the concepts you teach were in effect and they worked. I can now see how the men who pursued me tried very hard to please me and most of them came a long way from where they were. I now appreciate their effort. Even if they didn’t live up to my expectations. I can see how the concepts you teach were in effect and it all happened quite naturally. It was all part of the dating process. Instead of being offended that men didn’t live up to my expectations. I can be grateful for how hard most of them worked to make me happy. It was my fault for choosing the wrong men because I was blind to the part that was wrong with them. Yes they were wrong for misleading me about their addiction to pornography or worse. But I was blind to the nature of men and what women never hear because of the deep wound I had from learning way to soon the most depraved side of it. So it was inevitable I had to relive it so I could heal those wounds and replace those crucial parts of me that were lost. So I can finally grow up I guess you could say. There is no way to estimate the importance of a father in a daughters life. The way a father treats his daughter sets the ground work for how she will be treated. If my Dad wouldn’t have been killed in an accident my life would be totally different. It broke my mother and predators prey on broken people. And the cycle continues. For all those of us who haven’t had a positive father figure in our lives, and there are many. We are lucky to be able to find this site and to get the guidance and the truth about such a sensitive subject. Sometimes it’s a truth that is hard to accept. You make it easy to be able to do so by reminding us of the innate goodness and beauty of of feminine nature. and our God given right to defend that. So from me and the many other girls who never had a father who acknowledged and nurtured that aspect in them or even worse those who took it from them. I thank you. Your words your wisdom and your positive masculine influence will be there for all those who all those who are seeking it. I know it has made a difference in my life and I’m sure many others. So thank you and God bless you.
Your Highness Stephanie,
Thank you. I love it when pretty women respond with full detail to my questions.
Guy
Sex addiction is so gruesome. Good for you for trusting your instincts and doing the checking up that you did. Good grief that is a sad story. I’d rather be with an alcoholic any day than a sex addict although I believe that when a person has been able to overcome that addiction they are said to make good partners (still there is always the chance of a relapse and you have to be aware of that). As my dear mother always says, we are all wounded human beings but you dodged a bullet with this one.
Yes I am lucky I didn’t marry him. I sure wanted to though. I believe we always have a place in our hearts for our first love. The last thing in the world I need is to be married to someone who is addicted to getting off on or with other women. He was a unique experience as he had no conscience and was a master liar and manipulator. But it still seems like the other men I’ve attracted and continue to attract seem to all be involved with pornography. Porn is not as bad as cheating physically I guess as far as health issues go. But it is really worse in some ways. It’s a huge problem in society and you know what they say? If a man says he doesn’t look at pornography he is a liar. It is the first step for many into full blown sex addiction. I figure if I find a man I like and am willing to give the chance too. That he will be honest and get rid of the porn if he really loves me and wants to be with me. I’m hoping I can apply all that Guy teaches and he will come to understand and respect my feelings surrounding the subject. It scares me though do to past experiences that the pull to it is to strong and easily accessible so I will end up being deceived again. There are a lot of wounded people out there. Myself included. I have empathy but due to my wound porn is just something that I won’t tolerate. As well as any other form of cheating or dishonesty. If I end up alone so be it. At least I will be taking care of myself. I am curious how Lauren is able to trust Guy Jr. to have given up his lifestyle of naked nascar and such? I know my ex could have made me believe I was in committed bliss if I only visited him a few weekends a month. I’m also curious to know what Guy Sr or Jr thinks about how a mans drive to conquer a good woman is affected by the easy access to sex he is used to getting? With all the things that sex with multiple women does to raise bolster a mans self image. What would keep him from trying to get away with both? I guess the key is a conscience. My ex wasn’t wounded he had a very loving and privileged childhood. He was a psychopath. He was born without the ability to care. So he had become a master liar and manipulator. Until you go through it it’s impossible to understand. But I am grateful I dogged that torpedo. And grateful he forced me to wake up and see how blinded I had been so I could heal the pain from my own childhood. This site though triggering at times has been a form of therapy for me. His honesty has been essential to helping me heal. I’m most grateful for that and for everyone who has responded. Thank You!
Your Highness Stephanie,
No response here but tomorrow’s article #2133 somewhat addresses the concerns and questions you directed at me above.
Guy
Your Highness Stephanie,
I regret I’m not posting the article I said I would. I wrote a big response but can’t post it. Lack of both relevance and readability. Drifted out of my ever lovin’ blog mind.
But here’s my response to what you wonder about.
“I’m also curious to know what Guy Sr or Jr thinks about how a man’s drive to conquer a good woman is affected by the easy access to sex he is used to getting?” Past performance is a good indicator that he will try harder to improve future performance. To coin a new term, every conquest is an opportunity to enhance his self-reputation as great lover. Consequently, masculine-style sexual freedom for women fertilizes and converts natural conquerors’ into promiscuous players.
“With all the things that sex with multiple women does to raise bolster a man’s self image. What would keep him from trying to get away with both? I guess the key is a conscience.”
Yes, achievement produces self-admiration, which produces self-satisfaction, which is the natural counterpoint of female happiness. Thus, conquests enhance his picture of who and what he is. And, thus, he would be energized to conquer both.
As to conscience, would it slow or stop him from conquering more and more women? It all depends. A man’s conscience isn’t very strong to begin with. It comes alive with lessons learned in life. It develops as well and cumulatively as the superior sex teaches men that women want men to demonstrate they have a strong conscience. Mothers teach right and wrong. Parental leadership supports and endorses moral standards to boys before puberty. Girls uphold morality in the teens. Single women expect to see the male conscience working in dating and courtship, but they must make men aware of female standards and expectations. Wives confirm its importance in the home. And conscience-ridden professionals promote ethical conduct. But those are stories for another time.
Guy
Oh my I find it frightening to believe that men aren’t born with a natural conscience to be true to one woman. It’s quite the opposite. In this day and age and especially when we are older, men seem pretty used to getting easy access to sex. Of coarse I expect fidelity from a man. They always seem to expect it from me. It’s hard for me to imagine that a man could pursue me for a committed relationship while at the same time building his confidence in him self by cheating on me. I guess the key will to be to find a man who has learned to value honesty and who also values having a healthy intimate relationship over his ego being stroked by shallow conquest. By my age I would think that most men would have learned that there is not much true fulfillment to be had from conquest without love and bonding. Weather virtual or reality. No matter how much a man may want to have both, it is impossible to do so. Trust and transparency and the ability to be vulnerable are the keys to any true bond or devotion that creates any sort of lasting fulfillment. So I guess it all comes down to me making sure I am not being lied too. Or just making sure a man has proven it is me he values and is devoted to over any of that stupid stuff before I choose to be with him. Most men give themselves up pretty easily as they are only willing to put forth so much effort due to the fact that are used to getting sex so easily. I will just have to make sure I avoid those men who have been trained by their wife and the other women in their lives that is is ok to lie and live a double life. It’s not ok to me because I am not looking for a man to provide for me and my children. I’m looking for a partner I can trust to share my life with. It’s a good thing God gave women our intuition. I really only need to learn to trust myself. Thank you very much for your gentle yet straight forward wisdom that helps allow me to figure out how this is all meant to work out. It also helps me to see how me being true to my nature and not letting fear or negative thinking get the best of me works out in my favor in getting to love and devotion I desire. I always have room for improvement myself as well. You are most wise Sr. Guy.
No need to be sorry. I have not posted my response many times as I to have drifted out of my ever lovin mind. My questions can do that anyone. Myself most of all! As it is such a hard concept for me to grasp sometimes that a man is capable of love. A belief I gave up a long time ago that I need to get back if I ever expect to find a man who is capable of it. If men follow a woman’s standards and expectations of them. I’ve got to really expect and believe they are capable of love. Or I will keep getting a self fulfilling prophecy due to a belief that I should have never had to accept.
Your Highness Stephanie,
May I suggest this? Quit looking for love from a man according to female values, standards, and expectations. Look for his devotion to her outside of his interest in sex. Measure his devotion by his ACTIONS that indicate his interest in not disturbing her feelings about him. When he makes wordy promises, challenge him to produce the effects with actions. Let him know words mean little, actions mean a lot. How easy is he to forgo thoughts of sex in order to please her? In order to keep their relationship going? In order to accept sexual tension without release just to keep her in his favor?
Try it. You may find that men are very loveable because they too can be loving, if measured by the way that men show affection.
Guy
Stephanie, I found it helpful to watch the film: Thanks for Sharing with Gwyneth Paltrow. It’s billed as a comedy but it’s actually a rather serious film about sex addiction. It helped clarify things for me. Also I read a book called: Clean: A Proven Plan for Men Committed to Sexual Integrity. It’s a book for Christian men but I found it helpful, especially the part where it talked about how 50% of Christian men are struggling with this subject (Catholic and Protestant).
Yes I have seen that movie too. It explains a lot and I can see how painful of an issue the addiction can be for those who have the ability to feel remorse. I am aware that 50% of men today struggle with this issue. I live in Utah and we are rated highest in the nation for pornography. I think It’s partly because it is such a strict religious community. Repression and shame create a dangerous combination. I’m aware that any man I meet will struggle with it to some extent. I am working hard to be able to deal with it myself as it has affected my life to a huge extent too. I don’t want to cause any more shame or pain to any man. At the same time I don’t want to have to experience any more pain or shame either. Our sexuality ties to the core of who we are and pornography addiction is the equivalent of major emotional infidelity. As a man turns to it or some fantasy women to meet all his needs and is unable to develop any true bond or devotion to a his wife. Someone who has done the hard work of recovery could make a good partner. The key will be finding someone who I know I can trust to be completely honest with me and my own ability to deal with the truth without it feeling as an attack of my own self respect. It’s such a sensitive subject. i will definitely check out the book you recommended as well.
Well, seems I’m a bit late to this reunion. But it’s not my first time being late, as Lauren and Sir Guy can attest. Thanks to everyone and their renewed interest in our story.
As Lauren discussed, our relationship, along with the challenges of any relationship, has endured and grown. I feel it’s important to remember that the tenets put forward on WWNH, as Sir Guy has clearly explained, are generalities and not necessarily prescriptions. Although he goes into great detail on many subjects, there is no “one-size-fits-all” solution for any of you out there. They don’t exist. It would be nice for some of you if there were, but there’s not. None.
Hopefully, you take the thoughts put forward by so many of us here and use the ones that work in your specific situations. It’s what we’ve done, and that’s worked for us.
One last parting thought… The visibility from glass houses is very good on a clear day. But the ability to see something, doesn’t necessarily provide true understanding or insight into it.
Happy New Year!
Guy Jr.
I have been a long time follower of Guy’s blog. I have never commented on the Guy Jr and Lauren story, but the time that it ran I seriously considered not reading this blog ever again. The story seemed to go against all that Guy (and Grace) had been teaching and advocating to the readers. I was very confused as to how that story promoted the values that Guy has laid out over the years. With that being said I am still a faithful follower to this day, even though in my humble opinion, the story was disappointing in relation to the outcome that most women who read this blog would want with a man. As Lauren says above with regard to marriage, children and living with a man, “been there, done that, got the t-shirt”. I respect that is Lauren’s experience and where and what she wants now from her life. My guess is the majority of women who read this blog have not “been there” or “done that” or “got the t-shirt”, but would like to. That is why they come to this blog. Lauren’s choice works for her and where she is currently in life, but probably would be a very poor choice for women in very different circumstances. I am of the age, almost 50, where I understand life is not black and white, different strokes for different folks and that Guy is giving us a blueprint to follow, and not an exact science. However, for those younger women who follow, and I believe there maybe quite a few, there is a chance that this story may have muddied the waters of clear thinking and what is in their best interest at this point in their young lives. Even those of us who are divorced, struggling in a relationship or to find a good mate, might think “well if it worked for Lauren, why not me” and make a poor choice with a man. I get it, we all have to figure out what works best for us as individuals and we are all responsible for our own choices. I found this story to be a poor example given the theme of this blog on how to make it work with a man. This is my opinion and of course, I don’t speak for anyone else who reads it. I know the story was posted several years ago, I am only expressing my thoughts now because I see it has recently popped up again in the comments section of this blog. I realize by doing so I am opening myself to possible criticism and judgement as Lauren and Guy Jr did when they made their decision to share their story on a public blog about men, women and relationships. That is to be expected when you share something in such a public forum. I greatly respect and appreciate all Guy has done and continues to do for women and society. He writes with sincerity, clarity and common sense. There is no other voice today who speaks so much truth. For that I am forever grateful. I wish Guy Jr and Lauren much happiness and I know this goes without saying, you are very fortunate to have found each other.
Happy New Year to all.
Sweet Tea,
The telling of our story actually was meant to reinforce the principles that Sir Guy teaches but sadly, because we are a society that has become so obsessed with sex, that is the only part of the story that most want to comment and by which the success of our relationship is judged.
If one reads the story, it actually describes the ways we learned to trust and respect one another based on our respective male and female natures. Going into 4 years, I can honestly say I have only raised my voice to Guy, Jr. only once–and it was so silly I’m embarrassed to admit I did it (an incident over whether a fountain was level). I am very grateful on a daily basis that he is part of my life and make a concerted effort that he knows and understands that. In turn, he daily seeks out ways to please me and do for me.
I do not nag him, question him about where he goes, what he does or who he is with when not with me. I give him the trust and respect he deserves as a man who has earned this. In turn, he takes his responsibility and devotion very seriously. I have expectations that he protect me above all else in all things, and he does this without question. I treat him as a man worthy of my love and devotion and he steps up daily. Most men want to do this but are not afforded the opportunity. Women nag and tell them what to do and how to do it. Most men are very capable of falling into doing the right thing if given the right cues. Reinforce what you like and stay silent on what you don’t like.
I’m not perfect and have made plenty of mistakes in my life. I am very sorry that our story became so bastardized when to me it is such a loving and comforting force in my life. It is the relationship I’ve always wanted with a man and I feel very fortunate to have found it in my 50’s.
Which brings us to the marriage question. I have been married and love the comfort and security of marriage. However, there are many reasons a couple chooses to not marry, particularly at our age. My best friend lost her husband several years ago in a mining accident. For her to remarry, she would give up millions of dollars in benefits for both herself and her children. If 2 single people marry who have incomes that combined shift them into higher tax bracket, this becomes very prohibitive when you are older and preparing to retire and see that combining households actually causes a loss in your assets and future well-being. Then there is the question of children from previous marriages and the division of assets upon death in a combined family becomes more complicated. I am not advocating that my choice is good for anyone other than myself. Guy, Jr. and I have had these conversations many times, and like everyone else, we are doing the best we can and have figured out a solution that works for us.
The guidelines here are just that, guidelines based on male and female natures before the environment intercedes. Life deals each of us a different hand to play. The best any of us can do is play fair and be kind to one another, especially those we care about.
Lauren
Dear Lauren,
With respect, may I ask what behaviors you exhibit to help Guy Jr. believe in your complete faithfulness? I realize it might be a bunch over time, some you might not even think about, but your perspective on this would be appreciated.
Anonymous,
Guy, Jr. and I talked about this the last day or so and I wish I could give you an answer I think you are looking for. Unfortunately, I don’t think there are any specific behaviors I can cite. Sir Guy speaks often about the virtues a specific woman has that are virtues to a specific man. This is what resonates most. I am who I am and I don’t try to change or disguise my “quirks” or “issues”. I am not perfect, a saint, without lots of baggage or faults. However, it seems that these “quirks” or other things that compile to make me my unique self are those things that Guy, Jr. finds appealing. Not that there aren’t quirks he also would rather not have to deal with, but overall, it’s a single man’s idea about what is appealing to him. The faithfulness thing is just that, faith. Our mantra for ourselves throughout our entire relationship has been “trust and believe”.
Lauren
Thank you. 🙂
Sweet Tea,
We are indeed very fortunate to have found each other, albeit to the chagrin of some who frequent this blog, perhaps because we didn’t follow, to the letter, the principles put forward by Sir Guy.
Some out there may have become caught up more in the details of how we built our relationship (right or wrong, depending on how judgmental you choose to be) as opposed to why we decided to put our experiences under public scrutiny.
Our intent was to stimulate conversation and to share with the audience that what Sir Guy puts forward is not ALWAYS gospel. There is no ABSOLUTE path to happiness. You apply what works or doesn’t in your relationships, and continue to live your life. We never intended to be examples of what works or doesn’t work. We shared our “Real World” experiences as a point and/or counterpoint to what Sir Guy puts forward every day. Readers can take the point or the counterpoint, or absolutely nothing at all. As Lauren likes to say, not our circus, not our monkeys. I second that emotion.
I will say that the veiled vitriol that has been hurled at Lauren by some here is beyond the pale. None of you have walked one day in her shoes. She is way too fine of a lady to lower herself to defend her actions to the likes of anonymous strangers who simply choose to hate because of what they “believe.”
But I’m a street fighter. Sir Guy raised me that way. And so I’ll defend my love. He raised me that way too. For all who disparage Lauren, shame on you. Who the f*** do you think you are and what makes you any better or any kind of authority?
Did God suddenly give you a hall pass to judge others so harshly? To judge anyone at all??? Last time I checked, he wasn’t handing out ANY of those. Least of which, to YOU.
Guy Jr.
[Note: F-word edited by Guy Sr.]
Men are so appealing when they protect and defend their woman. You rock Guy, jr. 😘
Lauren
Sir Guy Jr:
“But I’m a street fighter. Sir Guy raised me that way. And so I’ll defend my love. He raised me that way too.”
Bravo! I don’t think women understand these things and that’s why they’re critical.
Sir Guy and I have been discussing ‘conquest’ on another thread—it’s like a battle that has to be won. Defense and conquest is part of the same dynamic. A man who wouldn’t defend his woman isn’t worth anything, as far as I’m concerned.
Awe I’m glad to see you defended your lady. The judgement due to religious concerns are irrelevant. I think some women may just be jealous. As women at any age but especially as we get older, know how hard it can be to find a man who we can build trust and a committed healthy relationship with. Marriage is just a piece of paper. It in no way guarantees that a man will stay trust worthy or faithful. Only each individual man or woman themselves has to chose to do that on a daily basis. My greatest concern and reason for being here is to learn how to make sure I don’t end up marrying someone untrustworthy as It has happened to me in the past. So if Lauren was able to gain the trust and security from a man with whom she has built a committed relationship with and they are happy and it works for them. I don’t see what difference that marriage document makes? We can see in many ways how the principles that Guy Sr. teaches were put into effect in their case even though marriage wasn’t the main goal this couple had in mind. They seem to have found something good and I hope they continue to be happy and are able to make it work for many years to come. Those of us who’s goal is to remarry can still glean much insight from them sharing their story with us. Because in effect we are both looking for the same thing. A committed relationship with someone we can trust. Congratulations Lauren and Guy Jr for finding it and each other. I wish you the best!
Hi Stephanie,
You asked how I could trust Guy, Jr. based on the fact our relationship has been primarily long distance for almost 4 years, and given his history. Very simply, I have expectations of which he is very much aware. It’s not something we have to discuss frequently, but I have made it clear that I don’t share well. I am a firm believer in giving trust, having faith and believing in my relationship. I also feel strongly that a Guy, Jr. and I want the same things within our relationship and we both work to maintain its integrity.
The long distance is not great but we have settled on what I call the “3 week threshold”. This is the point where we need to reconnect in person or both of us become frustrated with the distance and can be a bit short with the other. We recognize this and are fortunate that we are both able to travel rather freely. Also, as I mentioned before, we both now have second residences in the others hometown. This, along with text, Skype and frequent communication keeps us connected. We both acknowledge that a relationship where we were together for long periods of time would wear thin. We both require space and time alone and can respect this about the other. Even when in the same town, we go days without seeing each other. However, we maintain contact throughout each day through texting and phone calls. In the past year and a half, we have been somewhat successful at planning to spend the majority of our time in the same town, his or mine. Being near is much better than being far.
I understand your questions and can tell you that I was married to a man who was abusive and cheated constantly. I never trusted him, but honestly would not have left him if it had not been for my son. I vowed that my child would not grow up in a home to witness the abuse and learn those behaviors. I became a single parent when my son was 1. What I know for sure about my relationship with a Guy, Jr. is that it is different in every way. It never feels bad, it never hurts, never causes me pain or humiliation. It feels different, it feels good. As a woman I can say that, if you are tuned in and being very honest (not trying to force something bad to be good), your intuition will most likely always steer you in the right direction.
Lauren
Thanks for responding. Sorry I didn’t see your post until now. I too enjoy quite a bit of personal time to myself. I hope to be able to find a man who I feel is trustworthy again someday. I know with my ex even though he could have appeared to be so devoted and even a bit overbearing with my time. My instincts could feel something was not right. I remember trying to talk myself out of the doubts I was having. I don’t think it is normal for most men to be able to lie that easily. He went out of his way to make me feel secure and to make sure that I was living up to the same ideals of fidelity. But a woman knows when the man she loves is being unfaithful. She can feel it in her soul. I think many women are angry and critical of their man without knowing why, but they can feel something is off and it comes out still the same. After being hurt so badly I do still fear that it may be my old wounds causing the mistrust. As I can’t seem to find any man to date that doesn’t make me physically ill each time I try. My wounds run deeper than just being cheated by my ex. So until I have fully found a way to come to terms with all of it I have a hard time trusting my own instincts. The principles guy teaches will work regardless and I fill will be the key to me being able to work through these without getting to hurt or taken advantage of in the process. I know my instincts are the only thing I can really trust so for I intent to keep doing it. Its a little disheartening that I meet so many men who leave me no desire to want a second date let alone to give them the opportunity to earn my trust. Maybe it is because I am not quite ready yet but I don’t know? I’m sure things will change if I meet a man who I find attractive. At least I hope my heart isn’t closed of indefinitely. You are an inspiration to me know that trust and peace of mind is possible with a man after a bad experience of being cheated on. I wish you the best!
Lauren and I were lounging the other day and she looked at me and made this comment, out of the blue; “I love that our relationship is so easy.” I didn’t even need to ask her what she meant. It was the first time she characterized it that way, but I felt the same thing at the same moment. And this is why I believe it…
Regardless of all the support, or all the criticisms regarding our story that WE decided to choose to share here, the reality of why we work is deeply rooted in my father’s labor here at WWNH.
For all the haters, take a step back, clear your mind, and let’s begin here…
Our relationship is deeply rooted in the tenets of WWNH, believe it or not. Lauren is a woman who has chosen to embrace and celebrate her femininity, her providential wisdom, and her female nature. She is a woman who truly considers herself a wall flower, yet is anything but. That same attitude of “demure” (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/demure) manifests itself in feminine poise and strength and enables her to project and command the respect of an entire room; whether a board room or a bar room. The moment she sets foot into it. I don’t know how she does it, because I am not a woman, but I’ve seen it happen a gajillion times.
With few exceptions, Lauren personifies the WWNH mantra. She spends at least an hour a day on her “me” time, when she knows she will be in public or not. Her “vanity” is something very important to her, for all the right reasons, including my benefit. She is breathtakingly beautiful! Yet, for example, on the days when she tends to her horses, she’s content to pull her hair back and her boots on and put on no flair without a care.
She is confident, beyond measure. But never in a way that is intimidating, and never overtly. Not to others, not to me.
She is unparalleled in her ability to get me to perform to her expectations, without harsh words, or nagging, or confrontation. Her silence often means disapproval, which is easily read by a man like me who is in tune to her desires and expectations. But she is equally quick in her approval and praise for me when I meet those expectations. In my experience, nothing is more satisfying than the recognition and appreciation for a job well done, no matter how big or small. It’s what makes us men want to perform… or not.
I believe there are times when she feels I am challenged by the expectations she brings to bear on me, on us. Understand that I am a confident man and rarely unsteadied. But it is precisely then, when she doubles down on the frequency and level of praise and appreciation for me, and us.
I hope it is easy to see that Lauren has internalized much of WWNH and made it her own in her life, in my life, and in our relationship. While not always following the WWNH letter of the law to a “T”, we have continued to accentuate the positives of WWNH. There is much to be learned here. And much love to be found here.
Guy Jr.
Thank you for your response. I had tried to respond to yours but I drifted off in a tail spin due to my own reluctance to trust. So my post was long and basically my own therapy that no one needed to read. I think what you say about your relationship being “easy” is a great way to gauge things. I’m hoping it will be that way for me if I find someone that my intuition isn’t trying so hard to get my attention. Because at the end of the day that is the only thing we can really trust. It’s quite easy to get away with cheating these days.So you do need to have some level of blind faith in any relationship. Relationships suck without trust! So if I can learn to truly trust my intuition instead of ignore it. A good relationship would feel easy if I don’t have to battle my sixth sense. Changing my core beliefs about men and their ability to love is the first thing I need to work on if I ever want to find a man who can live up to my expectations. To believe a man’s ability to love is stronger than his lusts has always been a tough one for me. But it’s a stupid belief that was never mine to take on in the first place. It was someone else issues that gave to me other option to believe in that created it. Believing my mother to be stupid for being so loving trusting and nurturing didn’t help either. But I’ve had enough of that self fulfilling prophecy! So it’s good to hear of examples of a woman’s power outside of her sexuality that can be just as powerful and desirable if not more than a man’s inability to control his knee jerk reaction to lust and the free easy access to sex he enjoyed as a player. But most importantly his ability and willingness to sacrifice one for the other so that trust can be possible at all. I’m sure that your relationship with Lauren gives you more satisfaction that naked NASCAR ever could. You are lucky to have found her.
Thank you, Stephanie. I’m not a big fan of luck, but I understand what you’re saying.
It was Providence that allowed me to find Lauren way back in 1974. A 12-year old boy who had already lived in 10 different cities, from coast to coast, ended up in rural WV where Lauren was born and raised. Even though I never was able to make anything of us, we lost touch in 1980 after high school graduation.
Providence again allowed me to find her in 2011, some 31 years later, and I vowed never to lose her again, assuming I could make anything of us. And from reading our story, you know that was ANYTHING but a given.
I think most people on this blog have had similar experiences as you, myself included. It is our way of life today, sadly. Lots of disappointments and few triumphs.
But faith is not only a powerful weapon, but a powerful shield. Put unwavering faith in yourself, in your higher power, and watch aspirations be realized while tribulations fall away.
What is not quite so easily understood, is that any relationship that ultimately rewards those who are in it as seeming “easy”, is actually a relationship where A LOT of HARD WORK has been exerted… Usually not overtly, and rarely if ever, seeking outright recognition. The appreciation flows mutually in myriads of ways when the heavy lifting translates into things just being right. Or “easy”.
IMHO, we only get what we give. Which reminds me of one of my favorite songs. It speaks to the importance of music in one’s life, and of perseverance, and faith. With a healthy dose of chaos mixed in… which is life.
“When you feel your tree is breaking, just bend.” Best wishes on your journey,
Guy Jr.
Ya I know it takes work too. That’s what makes it satisfying. But I assume easy in the sense of not fighting about issues that shouldn’t be there in the first place. Your story reminds me a lot of my ex relationship. As he had loved me in high school and although it was only 20 years later he vowed not to let me go too. Sadly it didn’t work out the same as it did for you and Lauren. I just never figured someone would want to commit who wasn’t willing to commit. Let alone pursue it so hard. But addictions are hard to break and he had become used to cheating and couldn’t see much wrong with it so long as I didn’t find out about it. I had loved him for 20 years too or I wouldn’t have jumped in so fast or believed it was meant to be like I did
I have been noticing lately the power of intention. The things I have been thinking about seem to manifest with out much effort on my part as well. So I intend to find a good man who can be honest and faithful. I hope to have the same positive results. It could have been as simple as that in the past. only I was manifesting my worst fears.. SO I just need to make sure to really believe in positive things to override my subconscious fears. That easier said then done. But nothing is impossible with faith. That has always been my motto. I just hadn’t applied it to dating I guess. It’s good to hear your response I think it showed the deep feelings you have and your romantic nature which is something that didn’t show up in the original story. Make sure you let us all know if one day when it’s more practical that you two decide to get married. It sounds like your hearts are already entwined in one so it wouldn’t make much difference. Seeing you have made it this many years is enough for me to believe love is still possible even at our age. I wish you the best!
Your Highness Stephanie,
You say, “I have been noticing lately the power of intention. The things I have been thinking about seem to manifest with out much effort on my part as well.”
You describe how the natural connection between your conscious and subconscious minds works. It’s one form of self-fulfilling prophecy. Your subconscious mind doesn’t know right from wrong, what you want and don’t want, what’s good or bad for you. It’s hardwired to take you toward whatever you think about often and emotionally. You can’t help it except by not thinking about what’s wrong, unwanted, and bad for you. Instead, think always on the opposite. It’s why a positive and self-affirming attitude works in spite of contrary opinions held by others.
Men often dream about their ambitions, and the most easily achievable dreams are about fulfillment rather than the process to fulfill, which is where obstructions and discouragements appear. The marriage of their imaginations coupled with their subconscious amplifies their emotional connections and strengthens the SFP for them.
Women are not as lucky as men in achieving big dreams. They focus too much on the processes of achievement, where the negatives seem to far outnumber the positives enroute to fulfill dreams. It’s one reason I seek to convince women that their girlhood dreams of family life are real, hopeful, and achievable only if they don’t lose their dream and think of the results instead of how many obstacles they expect to encounter. Relationship experts are managers, and managers make things come out their way instead of how others shape things. Non-managers are easy to come by. She blames someone else for her choices, forgets to dream about what she hopes to have someday, or takes her mind off her dream by criticizing those with whom she hopes to fulfill it.
I suggest you practice using the SFP mental phenomenon to your advantage rather than disadvantage. You’ll be amazed at how much more effective you can be. Also, mirror time is a great time to practice, rehearse, and muster determination to produce what you want to see happen in your life.
Guy
funny enough, I mention that f bomb this morning. 😉
Guy Jr. and Lauren… I understand if you are “done” with this part of the article but I can not help out of curiosity if you would not mind writing up a prelude to your relationship? ie how you met, approximate ages, or anything you care to share so the reading audience can get a better understanding? I was under the pretext ya’ll were younger. (my fault of course) 😉
It makes me wonder with the religion aspect of things of what other women on here said about it. It also makes me wonder about the preacher that taught this…Even I was not immune from such teachings. (ie if you did not conform, there was no hope for you) I know now that is Pharisee thinking or as another man puts it, religitard. The term used to describe a religious-retard who is closed to the views and opinions of others, and who also voices their own opinions as fact; whilst committing crimes against human intelligence in the name of religion.
Thanks for reading! 🙂
Best wishes to you both for a new and wonderful year!!!!
surfercajun,
“but I can not help out of curiosity if you would not mind writing up a prelude to your relationship? ie how you met, approximate ages, or anything you care to share so the reading audience can get a better understanding?”
This was a multipart series. Roughly 15 fairly long posts if memory serves. If you start at the beginning, you should find all for which you’re looking. It began here: https://wwnh.wordpress.com/?s=1485
Thanks for the kind wishes and ditto to you.
Guy Jr.
Guy Jr., I meant no disrespect to you or Lauren. I expressed an opinion regarding a post to this blog. My understanding is that is acceptable so long as it is done respectfully.
This is a blog, you shared your story and people responded to it. You said the goal was to stimulate a conversation, it did. I don’t have any special pass from God for anything. Do you have one? When you share your story and choices in a public forum, people will have opinions and will judge, such is human nature (and blogging).
I believe that those of us who have posted comments regarding this story have received more criticism, vitriol and judgment for expressing our opinions that don’t align with what you “believe”.
Sweet Tea,
I absolutely understand that you meant no disrespect to either of us. And thank you. My apologies if you felt my response was directed at you. Quite the contrary.
You are correct. We willingly shared our story. We did seek to stimulate thought and conversation. Because even though we all agree with much of my father’s wisdom, there ARE successful outcomes that didn’t follow the script of WWNH to the letter.
My overarching point is that people DO have a right to their opinion, but when that opinion is judgmental, it is never warranted. Nobody gets that hall pass. Unless someone can send me an image of their hall pass with a date and time stamp from God, then they need to keep their judgments to themselves. They have no authority, whatsoever.
The reality is that many of the comments on this story, not just in this thread, have been perceived that Lauren was nothing but a two-bit whore for having sex with me before we married. Nothing could be further from the truth. But how would you enjoy effectively being labeled a whore by anonymous women who know nothing about you or your situation? A bit of a Scarlet letter, wouldn’t you say? Who deserves that, for trying to help others? There’s one person who in NO WAY deserves that, and I will not sit by idly or silently while others attempt to make that happen.
People should comment and state opinions all they please. They just shouldn’t do it with a gavel in their hand. They don’t have that right.
Guy Jr.
@ Sweet Tea-
I actually think that this story illustrates Sir Guy’s overall point very well. He says that it will be harder to secure devotion and marriage from a man if you have premarital sex with him. Lauren had premarital sex with Guy Jr. and remains unmarried over three years later. She says that she doesn’t want to get married (I guess we are assume that she would turn him down if he asked) so it worked out for her, but women who aren’t just looking for a long term boyfriend will certainly see this as a cautionary tale.
Sir Guy’s advice is meant to give women a choice that they, in this day in age, almost don’t even realize they have. The option to wait for a man to prove his worth before allowing a relationship to progress.
He is also telling us over and over again that we are valuable and should be treated that way and how to watch out for tricks and treachery that men in our society sometimes attempt in order to use us for their own selfish reasons.
Lauren undoubtedly knows she is valuable and is treated as precious by someone who loves her. She is strong enough that if she felt there was something lacking in her relationship I’m certain she would make a change.
She is happy and content. She has said as much and I take her at her word and am glad for her.
Making judgments about her personal relationship decisions only reflects badly on those doing the judging.
MLaRowe,
I will echo what Sir Guy often says; “I love it when pretty women put words in my mouth that I just couldn’t find.”
Thanks you and a blessed New Year to you and yours.
Guy Jr.
You are welcome and thank you for your acknowledgment. Blessings to you and Lauren and all those you care about too.