2153. Compatibility Axioms #671-680


671. A man’s natural pursuit of other females does not stop until one woman so captures his respect and captivates his imagination that he devotes himself to her alone. [234]

672. It’s a boob paradox. Women publicly appeal directly to the sexual interests of men. They capture men for sex, but they can’t hold one for long after infatuation, romantic love, and lust fade in a year or two. [234]

673. Men call it romance, whatever is required to initiate foreplay or sex. Women know romance as the special attention he pays her when sex is not at stake. [234]

674. She marries expecting him to change, but he doesn’t. He marries expecting her not to change, but she does. Both get what they don’t want. [234]

675. Erotic attire has one-person value: It puts the male mind on track to conquer or to show her off. Neither track is about her true self. [235]

676. After nakedness and conquest, there’s little left. Her ad campaign dies with conquest, as it kills his imagination except for future arousal. (Conquest is the man’s end-game. Booty sustains him between conquests.) [235]

677. Dating as a sex object plants the seed of booty for him but maybe only something better for her. [235]

678. Men want to move toward conquest at their pace. More mystery, modesty, and doubt about scoring slow it to her pace. [235]

679. Suggestive attire is more effective than erotic attire at energizing the imaginative side of the male mind. (The more he has to imagine, think, plot, and worry, the better for her.) [235]

680. The appeal of boobs lies in the challenge to get to them. Once uncovered, conquest is assured. [235]

 

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37 responses to “2153. Compatibility Axioms #671-680

  1. ” A man’s natural pursuit of other females does not stop until one woman so captures his respect and captivates his imagination that he devotes himself to her alone. ”

    And the trick is that commitment–even marriage–does not mean this has happened!

    Your Highness Denise,
    So true, so true. Commitment is not and marriage can disguise devotion.
    Guy

  2. Sir Guy, what would you consider more “suggestive” vs. straight-up “erotic” attire, for example? I.e. high heels/skirts instead of low-cut jeans? (Maybe there is a previous article you can refer me to?)

    I loved this chapter, it seems to recap the big picture you are describing—a helpful reminder!

    I realize most of your advice applies to the young/unmarried ladies (and I’m glad more and more of them seem to be catching on and reading it…) but what do you think about older women who have already been through a marriage, divorced/widowed/had kids etc, Should they be looking to marry (being that raising a family is off the table) or gracious enough just to take love and sex where they can find it, being that people tend to get set in their ways as life goes on and dating gets harder as there are less available men? Several of my friends are soul-searching about this problem, they are dating older men but the men say “Been there, done that, not doing it again” about actually getting married, although they seem like otherwise devoted guys. One girlfriend who divorced in her 50’s has given up on marrying again and now sees different men for different reasons! (Dinner out, events, companionship, sex, someone who likes to go hiking etc..) Yet somehow it seems lonely to me…….

    Would love to hear your thoughts/general advice on dating for the 50’s on up crowd. What is the same/different?

    Your Highness MeowMeow,

    As to attire, may I suggest my series entitled Boob Language. Some answers will be found there.

    As to the mid-life dating, I’m working on it. But I need time. My daily schedule just short-circuited, but I’ll be back.

    Guy

    • My Husband's Wife

      Dear Meow Meow,

      Interesting thoughts you have on this “One girlfriend who divorced in her 50’s has given up on marrying again and now sees different men for different reasons! (Dinner out, events, companionship, sex, someone who likes to go hiking etc..) Yet somehow it seems lonely to me…….”

      Yes, I see it happening, too and am interested in Sir Guy’s response.
      The example you gave sounds very selfish to me—as if one is seeking various relationships for what’s in it for them, not for what they can give to someone else. I then wonder if this “selfishness” is caused by extreme trust issues with members of the opposite sex? Which then keeps them on guard, always looking out for themselves and their own best interest.

      I do think it’s engrained in us to want to be with someone as it seems like most still seek being in a relationship despite having experienced prior pain. In attempting to not be hurt again, I think people put up road blocks and make excuses in avoiding intimacy (Not gonna marry again! I’m out for fun now!) thinking it will solve the problem. But I believe those blocks work against healthy relationships in the long run. Lonely indeed.

      Would be interested on other people’s take on this…

      • It’s like compartmentalizing, isn’t it… It sort of comes across like having multiple “safety nets”! I don’t think it’s so much out of selfishness in a mean way but more like fear of ever depending on one man again, not believing she could find one person who would care for her the way she wishes, so deciding to live the “Fancy Free” life (she can’t have kids so no fear of pregnancy etc.) I agree with you though, I think I would still hope (If i were in her shoes) that one man would rise above the rest. Unfortunatly I secretly think behaving this way lessens the chance of that actually happening! But who am I to judge…she is a very sparkly “fun” person so I think the guys she dates are charmed enough to put up with it (I assume the noncommittal sex helps too) If it sounds like I am being snarky, i’m really not. It seems to be a sort of common situation happening among some of the divorced/older single ladies I know, (interesting you’ve seen it too) and I’m just trying to wrap my head around how as a woman one makes peace with the idea that this is the most sensible option. i could see it maybe working for awhile but as a long-term lifestyle it seems very tiring!

        • Miss Gina

          It seems possible to me that such women have found that their relationship skills with men aren’t up to snuff. For whatever reason, they don’t admit fault and fail to make the changes it takes to properly screen and handle men. The few resources out there like this blog are what they need. Sadly, it seems that some are ignorant, while others refuse to change. I agree this route will not get them to a good place.

  3. Cinnamon

    but what do you think about older women who have already been through a marriage, divorced/widowed/had kids etc, Should they be looking to marry

    MeowMeow,

    Just an anecdotal data point – I am older (45+) and in my experience Sir Guy’s teachings work the same at my age. They really are timeless. If a woman wants to marry, regardless of age, she should stick to these teachings.

    If I had understood them in my early years it would have saved me, and some of the men I knew, a lot of grief (“too soon old, too late smart”).

    • Thank you Cinnamon! I like hearing that sticking to principles is always a good thing. It confirms my feelings that staying true to yourself is the best way to be happy….because anything less just doesn’t “feel right” and one is bound to wind up in deep trouble by betraying one’s own values. I am the same age as you (got married 20 years ago) and its been a long time since I was dating…..but my friend’s stories do make me worried should I be in the same situation in the future. I hope you are having success and happiness with Sir Guy’s teachings….It’s amazing and eye-opening to hear how a man really thinks. i/m so glad I found this site. Its very unique! And we are our own best cheerleaders! Taking your thoughts to heart and I think I’ll recommend my friends have a look at this site (they tend to think I’m a little too old-fashioned/romantic so I guess they like to use me as a sounding board but think I’m “judging them” (not true) when i suggest even slightly taking their time with relationships.

      • Cinnamon

        MeowMeow,

        Yes, like many others here, Sir Guy’s teachings have brought me much success and happiness in my relationships! Who ever thought things could be so easy between men and women once you understand these principles?

        I have tried to introduce other females to these teachings. Some are open-minded and recognise their value, whilst others seem to prefer to cling to destructive patterns which flow from misguided understandings about the male and female nature that lead only to unhappiness, misery, and endless complaining about men. It can be frustrating, but I try to keep in mind that “you can lead a horse to water,” etc.

        • Yes I find these principles even help in my work life and even have helped me understand my dad better! They are a little shocking at first to absorb at first—I can understand why a lot of women have a really difficult time with sex NOT equalling love to men, as it does for us! On the other hand, its interesting that if you apply the ideas, you will attract someone who will really love you for you, and you bring into your own nature a bit of God’s grace, reserve and feminine mystery, that you will always have that. I think of the great movie stars of the 30’s and 40’s—the characters they played often seemed to embody mystery. They are more ‘sexy” to me then what we think of today as sexy on the big screen.

          Your Highness MeowMeow,
          Perhaps you’ll find interest in movies at 1224 and 1242 and 1239.
          Guy

  4. Miss Kitty

    675 is SOO IMPORTANT.. and is why women should really be reading this!!
    there are pretty clothes that are not revealing, the cleavage and she should be wearing them….but most were before the 1990’s and it seems like they are coming back in style

  5. Tooconfused

    EDITOR’S NOTE: MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS following your questions in lower case. I also broke your paragraphs differently for easier reading. Guy

    This blog is great for motivation but honestly also so frustrating to see that real life is the complete opposite of whats described here. YES, I WRITE ABOUT THE WAY MEN AND WOMEN ARE BORN, THEIR INHERITED BUT DIFFERENT NATURES. LESSONS LEARNED IN MODERN LIFE LEAD TO THE CONDITIONS YOU OBSERVE.

    Not saying whats written here is false. But if men aren’t really “devoted” then why are they getting married to women who have been putting out without much fight? BECAUSE WOMEN MARRY BASED ON WORDY COMMITMENT RATHER THAN DEVOTION EXHIBITED BY ACTIONS. THE BREAKING POINT COMES WHEN ROMANTIC LOVE FADES IN A YEAR OR TWO, WHICH IT INEVITABLY DOES, AND ENDURING LOVE THAT DEPENDS ON DEVOTION NEVER DEVELOPED.

    Nearly all the women i know who got married were sexually active within 1-2 months, some on the 2nd date even. Ages span btwn 28-32. IT’S TYPICAL FOR WOMEN WHO CAN’T WAIT, THOSE WHO ARE IGNORANT OF MEN, OR IGNORANT OF WHAT ADDS PERMANENCE TO MATING. HOW LONG DO YOU RECKON THEIR MARRIAGES WILL LAST? MANY WILL FAIL SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, BECAUSE A ROCK-BOTTOM FOUNDATION WAS NEVER BUILT BY THE WOMEN SUCH THAT ENDURING LOVE NEVER DEVELOPS TO SUCCEED ROMANTIC LOVE.

    Maybe the question is naive. But the general trend I’m seeing is that men will virtually settle for whats available (the girl he dates that puts out) whilst giving up the girl he secretly pines for. Or he will pursue the one he pines for, give up half way, and settle for the much easier target. Or he will reject the idea of pursuing the target he wants all together and just date the girl who he knows will put out. OR he will date the girl that pursues him! And yes one girl i know has pursued a guy into marriage. IT’S CAUSED BY LOSS OF SELF-IMAGE AS A STRONG MASCULINE CHARACTER. THAT IS, FEMININIZED BY FEMINIST PROPAGANDA TO NOT FIGHT FOR HIMSELF AND MAKE HIS MASCULINE WAY APPEALING TO WOMEN. IOW, HE NEVER GENERATES OR HE LOSES HIS MANLY IDENTITY RELATIVE TO WOMEN. POOR LEAD WUSSES AND EASY CHEATERS COME OUT OF THAT CROWD. WIVES LOSE RESPECT FOR THOSE HUSBANDS AFTER IF NOT BEFORE ROMANTIC LOVE FADES.

    In fact i have not seen devotion from a man in real life action. I have seen committment in exchange for sex and that committment leading to marriage.

    The only place i heard of devotion was through hearing about my dads court ship with my mother. THE WORDS OF COMMITMENT BREAK EASILY. THE ACTIONS OF DEVOTION ELEVATE A WOMAN’S WORTH AND PROGRAM HIS HEART ACCORDINGLY. ONLY SHE HAS THE PATIENCE AND RELATIONSHIP EXPERTISE TO COACH DEVOTION OUT OF A MAN. MODERN WOMEN ARE IGNORANT, DON’T HAVE THE PATIENCE, OR LACK THE SKILL TO COACH A GUY ALONG IN HIS QUEST FOR HER HAND.

    Just frustrating and again, confusing. It takes a lot of strength to keep all pre marital activities out of the bedroom (esp if you’re Well out of college) and sometimes one wonders if it is worth it. AMEN ON ALL POINTS. ONLY WOMEN CAN MAKE LIFE COME OUT ANY BETTER FOR THEMSELVES. THAT’S WHY THIS BLOG FOCUSES ON THE BLESSINGS WE RECEIVE AT BIRTH. THE FOUNDATION OF SUCCESSFUL MATING COMES FROM BUILDING HABITS AND EXPECTATIONS AROUND OUR DEFAULT CONDITIONS, THOSE WE ARE BORN WITH.

    I wish i could at least hear about an acquaintance who has a devoted boyfriend and she’s not putting out. It would give me some hope. But for now i enjoy reading this, even though none of it matches my reality. STAY TUNED FOR UPCOMING SERIAL CALLED “MID-LIFE DATING.” ONE SUCH STORY IS EMBEDDED THERE. I’M SURE SOME READERS MAY HAVE SUCH STORIES AND INVITE THEM TO RESPOND.
    ——
    NOTE: I’M CALLED OUT FOR AWHILE, SO RESPONSES TO OTHER COMMENTS WILL BE AVAILABLE LATER IN THE DAY. GUY

    • Tooconfused

      EDITOR’S NOTE: MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS following your questions in lower case. I ALSO BROKE YOUR PARAGRAPHS FOR EASIER READING. GUY

      FIRST, I HEAR YOUR PAIN. RECOVERY IS EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING INCLUDES PAIN. SO MORE’S COMING IN YOUR LIFE IF YOU HOPE TO IMPROVE IT REGARDING MEN.

      Appreciate the rebuttal. Again you sound like my mother and my therapist. Both older women who are all about “playing hard to get” yada yada. YADA YADA SAYS YOU CAN’T RESPECT HARD TO GET. YOU MIGHT WANT TO RETHINK THAT VIEW IF RECOVERY IS OF INTEREST.

      I want to further this comment by adding on another social trend. The “good girls” (attractive, ones who work to keep lean and keep their legs crossed) are willing to give men a chance to pursue. She attracts both the “wusses” (could range from provider betas to losers) and “players” (alphas or betas who have seasoned expertise on manipulating and bedding women). SHE’S BLESSED TO HAVE VARIETY TO CHOOSE FROM. TO KNOW WHAT SUCCESS EVEN LOOKS LIKE, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH MANY FAILURES. OTHERWISE, IT’S TOO EASY TO RATIONALIZE WHATEVER TEMPORARILY EXCITES YOU.

      In my experience, the good marriage-able men or the wusses pull out of the chase for a good woman. PERHAPS SHE ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH. They want the mercedes but go for the Honda civic. WHAT SEEMS DUMB TO YOU IS PROBABLY PERFECTLY LOGICAL AND REASONABLE TO THEM. PERHAPS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST, BUT IT LEAVES YOU WITH OPPORTUNITY TO DO MORE TO MUTUALIZE COMPETING INTERESTS.

      And that leaves us good hard-to-get women with players. Why? BECAUSE HARD TO GET ATTRACTS. The players love a challenge. TRUE. And sometimes we confuse pursuit and replace this with devotion when in fact we are just dealing with another womanizer. WHICH MEANS YOU CAN’T TELL WORDS OF COMMITMENT FROM ACTIONS THAT DISPLAY DEVOTION. DON’T FALL FOR THEIR VAGUE AND UNAVAILABLE TACTICS. CALL THEIR BLUFFS, FACE OFF IN CONFRONTATION, AND THEIR TRUE COLORS WILL EVENTUALLY SHOW.

      That’s the complete irony here. The players like pursuing the “good girls” because they like the challenge. But what we good girls wanted and would have been happy with was the stable minivan. Sure a white Ferrari is nice. RIGHT. SEE HOW SMART YOU ARE. YOU RECOGNIZE THAT MR. GOOD ENOUGH IS A BETTER ‘STARTER-UPPER’ THAN A MR. RIGHT THAT TURNS OUT PHONY.

      But isn’t it supposed to be easier to date a man a little below our league? I’ve been dealt both the minivan and white ferraris. YES, A MAN WHO MARRIES OVER HIS HEAD MUCH MORE EASILY STAYS DEVOTED AND FAITHFUL. Now i said i would have been happy with the minivan but does the minivan chase? No! PERHAPS YOU’RE JUST NOT THE RIGHT MIX OF ‘BETTER THAN GOOD’ FOR MINIVAN DRIVERS. (THE UPCOMING SERIES ON DATING IN MID-LIFE ADDRESSES SELF-IMPROVEMENT FOR DATING.)

      My therapist has a theory that men addicted to womanizing are in the closet. Since he hates himself he needs constant re-affirmation from bedding women. He hates himself of course because he is in the closet. Or some other reason i don’t have time to explain.

      It’s just difficult because this blog was like this eye opener. One almost wishes to go back. There was the dumber version of me that never read this blog. It’s like you become hyper aware of your options and what men are really like. Dating has become even more challenging because i now know what he thinks and how he thinks.

      As a realist i prefer this method. But at the same time i have been ridiculed for sharing your website with other women. They label me as “backwards” and from the “1950s”. LISTEN TO YOUR HEART, DARLING, IT WON’T FAIL YOU.

      As a reader i think it’s great you give us insightful strategies but we are women here and we need more. You simply state how men think but we need more specific examples on how to date, how to decipher signals in real life. PERHAPS NOT ENOUGH BUT MORE IS COMING IN THE DATING IN MID-LIFE SERIES.

      I would like more specific real life examples from women and hear guy’s rebuttals with detailed explanations. While your explanations have helped set many changes in my thinking it still has not changed the fact that girls like us get pursued by players, or dumped by men who would marry but aren’t willing to pursue without sex. YOU’RE THE ONLY RELATIONSHIP EXPERT IN YOUR LIFE. ONLY YOU CAN RECOVER FROM WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND ARE. I’M HERE ONLY TO OFFER KNOWLEDGE OF HUMAN NATURE AND SUGGESTIONS THAT YOU MAY BE ABLE TO EXPLOIT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.

      What annoys me is where was this blog when i was 20 years old? IT’S BEEN ONLINE FOR OVER SEVEN YEARS.

      Thankfully i have been Wise and haven’t been subjected to dorm culture but many women reading this are Well beyond 20. Yes i have heard successful testimonies through comments of women who have changed their ways but only on this website. In real life i am surrounded by women who shame chastity and support promiscuity. MAY I SUGGEST YOU LEARN TO CULTIVATE YOUR OWN LIFE OF SHAMELESS CHASTITY AND AVOID SHAMEFUL PROMISCUITY AND THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH IT? WE BECOME LIKE THOSE WITH WHOM WE ASSOCIATE, SO YOU CAN SET A BETTER MODEL OF AN IDEAL WOMAN.

      Anyway thanks for all you do. We just want more! Time is running out.

      AND THANKS AGAIN FOR SUCH DELIGHTFULLY CLEAR COMMENTS. YOU’RE A JEWEL IN MY CROWN OF REWARDS FOR WHAT I’M DOING. BUT LET’S SWITCH OVER TO A DIALOGUE ABOUT SUCCESS FOR WOMEN AND AWAY FROM COMPLAINTS ABOUT MEN. THE FERTILE GROUND IS WITH THE FORMER. MEN DON’T LISTEN BUT TO ONE WOMAN, THE ONE THEY WANT TO KEEP. GUY

      • Cinnamon

        As a reader i think it’s great you give us insightful strategies but we are women here and we need more. You simply state how men think but we need more specific examples on how to date, how to decipher signals in real life.

        I have to disagree with you on this one, Tooconfused. You underestimate the scope of what is already contained here at WWNH (which may simply be an oversight on your part resulting from you having not done enough reading yet in the Content section). Sir Guy gives strategy but, as a retired military officer, he also delves deep into tactics. In fact, he has detailed tactics for nearly any scenario you can throw at him (occasionally he says he can’t help, but such occasions are very rare). This is what makes him, in my view, the leading authority on these matters.

        Sir Guy has another saying, “If you want a better man, become a better woman.” Rather than focusing on deciphering signals from men, I think you should be asking yourself whether you are the best woman you can be according to the principles outlined here. Moreover WWNH has taught me that “deciphering the signals” really comes down to learning how to discern whether a man is interested in you for something more than sex and, if he is, whether (a) he has the character you are looking for in a man and (b) whether he is developing devotion toward you. Detailed instructions on all these points are contained in the articles. So I think you would benefit greatly from more study! 🙂

      • My Husband's Wife

        Dear Tooconfused,

        You outlined so accurately what is happening in today’s dating world. I’m impressed at your insight, the questions you ask, and how you’re putting the pieces together. You asked about this, “I would like more specific real life examples from women…” I have stories of two girls who have found devoted husbands while remaining chaste during dating life today.

        Girl #1, age 20 – In her teens, this girl had a habit of being attracted to bad boys and lost her virginity to one of them. As a result, her self-esteem hit rock bottom. After realizing these weren’t the kind of men that would make a good husband, she became a virtual virgin. At this point, she continued dating and went on lots of dates. Most of the men were disappointments. They would be great at first, and then many red flags would pop up after some time. That was until she found a man who had her similar set of values. He said from the get-go that his goal was to find a wife and completely respected her sex-free agenda. When she’d visit him out of town, he found a place for her to stay at his pastor’s home. (The key here is not in the words he said to her, but in that he kept seeing her despite no sex. His actions matched his words). He was always incredibly thoughtful of her needs, putting her first while they were dating. Now they are married and the “putting her first” a.k.a devotion continues. She’s happy as a clam being a wife, baking, cleaning and now pursuing beauty school (which he is in full support of her accomplishing her goals)—that is if becoming a mother doesn’t come first. 😉

        GIRL #2, age 22. This girl’s fiancé fell in love with her at first sight in high school when she turned around and smiled at a joke he made. She didn’t see him the same way at all, at least for many years. He dated others (and even had sex with others) yet girl #2 was always on his mind and he kept trying to get her to date him. Finally, years later she agreed to date him, but remained chaste. Their relationship has blossomed into something quite beautiful—he’s worked very hard all those years to get her attention! In fact, he started out not so religious, but has recently converted to her religion of his own will without her prompting.

        By-the-way, both girls were ridiculed by other female peers for their values.

        There are no guarantees in life and who knows what the future holds, but I believe these two couples have a great foundation which will enable them to better weather the storms in life.

        You see, both these girls put a high price tag on themselves, so the men saw them as valuable, did the work to “earn” them (as Sir Guy says “Men don’t appreciate unearned gifts”), and thus became devoted to them. I highly doubt these men will stray.

        If you haven’t seen it, there’s a video short that you might find interesting called “The Economics of Sex” which explains ONE of the MANY reasons things are the way they are in the dating world today.

        Stick with us here are while and pretty soon you’ll be changing your “Tooconfused” screen name as I doubt you’ll be confused for very long. You’re already way ahead of the curve 🙂

        • Tooconfused

          I’m really supposed to get moving but saw your comment and had to reply.

          These stories are great. I choose to hope than accept my current reality. The other day a perfectly nice gentleman at whole foods who i didn’t know followed me out of the supermarket. He was trying to talk to me but i turned away a good opportunity because i am empty. After several back to back experiences dealing with being dumped pre conquest i can’t handle another courtship at least not yet. I almost think it would be simpler wearing a huge sign that said “no ring no booty” and he would have walked away without me having to turn him down.

          I have already seen that documentary twice. Whats interesting about that doc is the role of the birth control pill in modern relationships. The problem with this is that if we blame the pill for our problems it’s much too fatalistic. The pill does not automatically signal yes to sex. But women sometimes behave loosely because of these contraceptions.

          Anyways thanks for the stories!

          • My Husband's Wife

            Dear Tooconfused,

            Good catch about contraception on the “Economics of Sex” video. I agree with you too that the pill doesn’t automatically signal yes to sex—there are many other factors going on that have got us to this point. Just because contraception is free-flowing, doesn’t mean one is absolved from personal responsibility using it as an excuse.

            I’m so glad you’re at this site as it seems like today it takes much more effort in “weeding out” and going through these “learning” experiences than in the “good ole days.” I sure wish I had had this info 20 years ago, but thankful to be learning now and being a part of this great group of ladies and gentlemen at WWNH. Just think, after all your hard work, when a Mr. Good Enough comes along, you will be extra appreciative of him. 😉

  6. Cinnamon

    I wish i could at least hear about an acquaintance who has a devoted boyfriend and she’s not putting out. It would give me some hope.

    Tooconfused,

    If you don’t know of any such cases then you don’t know any truly independent women, so stick around, because this blog is filled with such stories. Sir Guy teaches that if a man won’t meet a woman’s standards, she moves on with her life and doesn’t waste time. She is better off alone then with such a man. He shows exactly how to do this, and how to be content while doing it.

    Sir Guy has a saying, “The world turns on hope,” and this whole blog is built on showing women how to go about find legitimate hope. You need to hang out here more often and start reading some of the articles in the “Content” section. If you pay attention it will keep you busy for many months, and you will be amazed at how your life is transformed because the principles taught here actually work. Then some day you will look back in amazement at how straightforward it all really is to have a great relationship with a man of your choice.

    Your Highness Cinnamon,
    Thank you, darling. Just what she needs to hear in a way that I could never say it.
    Guy

    • Tooconfused

      Cinnamon-

      Your comment is much appreciated.
      Perhaps I’m too inside my own head. I have read and been reading the blog for a long time now. Nearly every article actually.

      Last courtship lasted 8 months. Kept myself chaste as i usually do and followed nearly all of the guidelines. I saw these guidelines on this blog working as cause and effect in real life. Since i tested out Guy’s methods i saw them coming true in real life with a man and that’s why this blog is great. It was such good timing. The minute the courtship started was when i went back to the older articles here and started applying them.

      Nearly everything “guy” said would happen did. And things were going Well. With every date (only saw him twice a month despite him asking to see me more often) i actively practiced the concepts discussed and saw real results. I saw him growing more single minded in pursuit. Did we drink during dates? Yes and i thank the stars that even under the wishy washy mind cloud that beers will put you through i still managed to get myself in a cab without him in it. This was sheer luck and i thank whatever divine spirits watched over me during this time.

      And then —- he snapped. After 8 months i found out why he had suddenly stopped regular contact. Its true he played vague and unavailable at Times during courtship but so did i – twice as hard. As Guy predicted (if the man really likes the woman) everytime he came back in pursuit even more determined. It was almost circular, concentric in pattern, growing in intensity.

      But then after 8 months he dissapeared for the longest span of time. A whole week. He had been busy chasing and bedding a friend of a friend (small world heard it through the grapevine). Did they end up dating? No. She was a once or twice night stand for him. How did i know? Because He pursued me again but my logical side said “he was gone for too long”. I wanted to rationalize it all away and accept that he could be better. Instead i took all cards off the table and stopped all contact with him. Boy did this take an Extreme amount of self control. And during that time i read this blog over again.

      He Tried to walk back into my life with no explanation and pursue me again after he went and satisfied his carnal desires?? Possibly for marriage which i knew was on his mind? (He mentioned it, not me). I said “i don’t think so”. As he left me hanging high and dry so did i. He kept reaching out assuming i’d be willing to accept his dissapearance but why explain unless i wished to reconcile? It was hard for me to stand my ground but what’s worse is accepting him and living a lifetime of hurt. I still think maybe i did something wrong. But i think best bet is just take it as a learning curve. For any woman out there reading this i hope that they know a temporary moment of pain is far better than a lifetime of misery. I know I’ve dodged a bullet.

      Guy says that if a woman gets dumped pre conquest that she earns whatever time the man in question pursued her. Like it flatters her Femininity or something like this. This may be true but even though i kept myself chaste i still felt rejected. I guess I’ve grown tired of losing out to round heeled booty. Why should a man pursue when nearly all other women are willing to live according to masculine wants and desires? At the same time you know, you feel empowered. I did sort of. I mean to be pursued for this long without caving, i was proud of myself for practicing Chastity but of course the pain was so much worse. When my friends found out that i had not slept with him the whole time they too were shocked. Thinking “its not possible he has many options!” I tell them yes it is just read this blog. I could tell it shook them up.

      Perhaps it helps to say that in my area men have it easy. I live in a big city where feminist propaganda is, Well, a sad reality. Women here range from manly and overweight, pseudo intellectual know it alls to models. Not that being overweight is and but i think you have more bargaining power as a woman if you are thin. Ladies here simply look at you like you’re some religious zealot if you stick to self imposed rules. Women here do not hold out it is simply unheard of. The crazy thing is I’m not even religious. Which is why people think I’m even weirder!

      Its true Cinnamon – i can and will need to make myself better. You’re right. I’m thinking too much of the outside and not looking within. Maybe it is as simple as you’re not good enough in the right ways. Anyways thanks for the input lots to think about.

      • Cinnamon

        Tooconfused,

        Reading through your account I think you did nearly everything correctly according to the principles of WWNH. Sir Guy explains over and over that a man reveals his character over a long period of time and that this is why long courtships are a good thing. You dodged a bullet here (as have most of us, even after we began putting these teachings into practise. Mr Goodenough isn’t something you can order off Ebay once you have worked through all Sir Guy’s articles). The beauty of it is, you did so with your self-respect intact. This is the way it is supposed to work.

        Just a couple of possible “lessons learned”:

        1. With respect to the following:
        Its true he played vague and unavailable at Times during courtship but so did i

        I sense he did give out some signals during those 8 months that he was not good husband material with his V/U behaviours, but maybe you rationalised it because you found him so attractive. That Horse is Dead had a similar experience with a guy from her church, who pursued her but then shifted into V/U behaviours. I dubbed him “Mr Hot and Cold.” My take was that a persistent V/U is not compatible with devotion and that ergo, he was by definition not good husband material even though she found him otherwise quite attractive.

        My belief is that if V/U behaviours appear, they should correct themselves quite quickly and disappear, and not recur, if a man is very interested in you. If they persist, you should cut your losses (in a ladylike way, of course). I know it’s hard to draw the line here as to how much you should put up with, especially when things otherwise look promising, but I’d say “trust your gut.” Also, I am hoping your tolerance for persistent V/U behaviours will be lower with the next guy. I’d be interested to hear what others think about this issue though.

        2. With respect to the following: When my friends found out that i had not slept with him the whole time they too were shocked.

        I would stop discussing this blog with your friends. Sir Guy says elsewhere to not discuss your sexual strategy (whether virgin or VV) with anyone, not even your family and friends. Especially in your case, I think it just causes confusion for you and makes you doubt yourself, because the promiscuity culture is so dominant. You need to carve out a mental space for yourself that cannot be violated by the misguided filth and stupidity you see around you. In that place, you cultivate a mindset of absolute respect for the male gender, and a dedication to yourself to become the best woman you can be including by NOT violating your own values and standards regardless of what those around you are doing.

        If you want the type of gentleman that Sir Guy writes about then you need to stick with the WWNH principles and do so quietly (think iron fist, velvet glove — also known as hard-headedness and soft-heartedness), because they are quite countercultural. You will get a lot of support here if you want to post updates with men you are meeting and/or dating IRL, so I encourage you to discuss it with us, not with your acquaintances and friends.

        Yes, it is a real learning curve, not just for you but for all of us. You just need to keep going as you are, keep reading the blog, and going forward perhaps be a bit more selective and discerning with respect to men.

        • Tooconfused

          The vague thing. I need to know more about this from others as well. For me when he played vague I wouldn’t hear from him for 2 days or so but I didn’t assume this was bad. But that was the longest at the time mostly i heard from him everyday. Men get busy and so do we. But like I said, one full week with no contact is a huge red flag. If he’s really crazy about the girl he’d be too insecure to let that much time pass by. Or there is easy temptation lurking around the corner. I knew in my gut something was wrong. Over time you develop psychic abilities with men and i felt he was successfully pursuing another. But again like my naive self i kept asking why? Like a dumb idiot. From his perspective he’s thinking “why not?”.

          But, Men can still play V+A – even the alphas with character. They will run game just to see if the woman will jump first. They can still be really into the girl and play V+A. That’s where it gets confusing. So just because the man is being vague it doesn’t mean the courtship is over does it? Some men are just not that wordy or show devotion that easily- for some it takes time.

          Besides what gal wants a man who pedestalizes her?I love attention and being admired but if a man’s world ended and started with me i’d be very worried about our future!

          Cinnamon- thank again for the bullet points!

          Your Highness Tooconfused,
          If you haven’t already, you may find articles 2029 and 2030 informative about vague etc.
          Guy

          • Cinnamon

            Besides what gal wants a man who pedestalizes her?I love attention and being admired but if a man’s world ended and started with me i’d be very worried about our future!

            Holding a woman in the absolute highest regard (or as Sir Guy would say, absolute respect for the female gender and for one woman in particular) and a man having other important things in his life, including a primary mission, are not mutually exclusive.

            The Manosphere is working hand in hand with the promiscuity culture and is very manipulative in its tactics. Their concept of “pedestalization,” a term which is always used pejoratively, is in my view a deliberate attempt to destabilize male/female reations (and therefore marriage and the family) by undermining respect between the genders, male devotion in particular. You can see the success all around you in the friends you describe, and the lack of respect the men around you seem to have for the female gender as expressed in their behaviour. Is this the world you desire? From what you have written, I would venture the answer is “no.”

            Moreover, men with character don’t “run game,” nor do they need to. Have you seen even a single comment here by any of the women who are in successful relationships where their husband or boyfriend is “running game?” I’ve been here for many years and, hand on heart, I have yet to see such an account. If a man is “running game,” you should run a mile, unless you genuinely find this behaviour appealing.

      • MeowMeow

        This is a question for Sir Guy I’ve always been curious about too! —-if a man appears to be clearly interested in/fascinated by/ “chasing” a girl for an extended period of time (going on dates w/her, picnics, out for drinks etc) but there is no sex due to her wishes and talk about marriage is only in the abstract, what should a lady think if he sees another girl for a (purely sexual) one-night stand occasionally while he is continuing to pursue her? Can he do that and still have respect/marriage wishes for the sexual holdout? Or does this kind of behavior reveal that he simply sees all women as vessels for his own pleasure and she’d end up in the same boat?

        Sir Guy, I could be so wrong, but in the past (1920s–1940s) wasn’t it common for both men and women to date many people at once and you understood not to take any of them seriously until you were engaged or at least committed by a public declaration of ‘Going Steady?” —-(Oh the scary days before Birth Control where it was perfectly reasonable/understandable for women to delay sex and not be thought of as “weird!”)

        Your Highness MeowMeow,

        Paragraph 1: Her Highness Cinnamon gives the perfect response, next. Without obligation and commitment to a woman, he remains independent and should be respected.

        Paragraph 2: Yes, it was common. But economic conditions were such that dates were often just home visits, movie, trip to a drive in if one had a car. When sex happened, the back seat was the friendliest spot. Hotels had regulations to prevent unmarried arrangements. People like to condemn the Blue Laws, but they were female friendly because female values were the driving force behind them.

        Guy

        • Cinnamon

          Paragraph 1: Her Highness Cinnamon gives the perfect response, next. Without obligation and commitment to a woman, he remains independent and should be respected.

          Sir Guy,

          Apologies but this answer is not clear to me. I’m not sure what comment of mine you are referencing in regard to Meow Meow’s question. If you reread her first paragraph again she is asking whether men who play around with others while dating could possibly be material for Mr Goodenough. I agree that such a man is “independent” but I don’t see why he should be “respected.” Would you please clarify?

          Your Highness Cinnamon,

          Sorry for the lack of clarity, darling.

          MeowMeow wondered what she should think about an interested but unobligated man having one-night stands occasionally with others. You responded with, “Holding a woman in the absolute highest regard (or as
          Sir Guy would say, absolute respect for the female gender and for one woman in particular) and a man having other important things in his life, including a primary mission, are not mutually exclusive.” I took “not mutually exclusive” to mean, as it does to me, that he’s independent and not obligated to refrain. Consequently, it’s not much of her business, since she has no claims on him except that she wishes he wouldn’t.

          He should be respected as a person and a man, although he might deserve less for his behavior and, therefore, persona with MeowMeow.

          Your thoughts of Mr. Good Enough may be implied but I missed it and didn’t consider it.

          Thanks for bracing me up on a matter of clarity. It always works for the best.

          Guy

          • Cinnamon

            Sir Guy,
            I disagree with you that a man who behaves in this fashion is worthy of respect, but I think it’s best if I explain to you offline. I am hoping to convince you that you are wrong and should revise your opinion (LOL).

            I am a bit busy at the moment but will write you an email about this at a later time.

            Your Highness Cinnamon,
            It’s the first time to be taken out behind the woodshed, but I’m looking forward to it.
            Guy

            • Tooconfused

              Cinnamon

              Yes this is exactly where my confusions have lied.

              Guy is saying unless it’s like clearly discussed men are “independent”. I read that previously on this blog. The woman can’t make such demands while she is busy being elusive and off doing her own thing while also expecting the man to be devoted. I mean fair game right?? Tit for tat or whatever they say.

              I had the experience where we never discussed it clearly (well b/c Guy said to be indirect which I practiced!) but I assumed that if he has the audacity to risk losing me for an easy lay it would be over. Or he would be on shaky ground. That said men can love one woman and have playthings on the side. It does not mean he does not love this one woman. But another heartbreaking fact of human nature is that woman Typically act like me. My pride stops me from keeping lines of communication open. How dare he go have fun with his side dish! I am the main attraction blah blah.

              I mean if a man is putting in steady time over months trying to make progress why risk it for someone who isn’t worth the investment?

              That’s ultimately why I walked. Because I just didn’t feel good about it and I did feel left to emotionally dry out.

              Technically he did nothing wrong. I never asked him to be monogamous. But if I had to ask for it, I already lost the battle right?The conundrum being that devotion is something you can’t ask for or negotiate. If you already feel this way then you’ve lost half the battle.

              And from reading this blog, I assumed he wasn’t devoted. He liked me a lot sure.

              This brings me back to the doubts raised previously. Especially with certain men they don’t show devotion deliberately and as soon, especially if he’s procured many notches.

              They simply don’t attach and go crazy for women in the same way because they are experienced but that doesn’t mean they can’t change. I have seen frustrated hounds who eventually buckle and remain loyal to one and one only. But it takes a certain kind of woman I suppose. Also some do vigorously pursue only 1 but they could grow tired. Men can never not fantasize about what another conquest will be like, a possibility of a new lay will always haunt his mind and this is even more true for cads who have the power to excercise variety. That’s why alphas with character are rare in fact where are they??? None in my hood. In fact a man’s integrity can only be measured in comparison to how much he is willing to give up. A feminized boy who is attracted to dominant women and can’t make any decisions doesn’t have “integrity” he just can’t get laid period. He has integrity by default in which case this isn’t integrity at all!

              I realised the only way I know anything for sure if a ring pops out out of nowhere all else is up for debate.

              Your Highness Tooconfused,

              Your experience is common. I can’t turn men around; only women can do that. However, I can explain the natural side of the behavior of you and the guy. It may help the next time.

              I’m on your side. From your description, his behavior is unrespectable. Actually, it’s worse, contemptible. He lacks the sense of personal responsibility to develop loyalty, to focus and restrict his love to one particular woman from whom he receives attention, affection, and admiration. IOW, he’s ungrateful. That means he lacks manly self-respect and backbone to stand responsible for someone other than himself. You’re lucky to have found him out so early. His next woman may not be so lucky.

              Let me use your situation to go deeper into the opposed natures of men and women.

              You cite as unfair the different standards that arise out of the different male-female natures. As hunter-conqueror by birth, you call him unrespectable for following his nature. Do you call a woman unrespectable for following her nature and trying to rope a man into her corral and assuming some degree of ‘possession’ without his obligating himself? (It’s meant as comparison and not criticism. I don’t criticize human nature.)

              You call it unfair (male preference) but you probably mean unequal (female preference). Nature has never been fair, and equality is not achievable except as self-interest determines it be so—and that’s an unstable condition because another form of inequality is so easily spotlighted. Fairness is the only measure that brings long-range stability to negotiation and settlement.

              Males wandering sexually victimize females to whom they are committed or obligated to be loyal. They don’t deserve respect for such maltreatment.

              OTOH, neither committed nor obligated through a man’s words, she may still feel victimized and call him disloyal for his ‘side dish’. She’s not to blame. His disloyalty signifies insufficient attachment to her, and that’s very real.

              In fact, loyalty is to men what love is to women. Her signs of loyalty to him equate to love; her words of love do not equate with his view of her loyalty. He measures and judges by actions and words are usually insufficient.

              He demonstrates his love for her by acts that symbolize his loyalty; he pleases himself by pleasing her and avoiding displeasing her. He’s proactive about it, just as she’s proactive about telling him of her love. Out of that combination grows stable relationships.

              Guy

              • Cinnamon

                Tooconfused,

                I am hoping Sir Guy will have time in the next day or two to give a detailed response to your particular situation, not only to answer your questions here but also for me to get a better idea of where he is coming from on this so I can analyse it and gather my own thoughts. In fact, I hope he interrupts his Mid-life Dating series in order to write an article that address this exact issue, because I think it is a source of real confusion, even for the veterans here.

                My own advice to you is to steer cleer of any man who does what this guy did (snacking on a “side dish” as you call it – LOL). I feel such a man has absolutely DISQUALIFIED himself from being Mr Goodenough (absent some kind of serious conversion experience, meaning, such behaviour is seen as WRONG and DESTRUCTIVE to all parties concerned, and left behind FOR GOOD).

                I simply cannot respect a man who embraces this kind of lifestyle but YMMV and maybe that’s okay (?) within the confines of WWNH. But let’s see what Sir Guy says on it. 🙂

                Your Highness Cinnamon,
                I responded at her comment as you requested. BTW what’s YMMV?
                Guy

              • gonemaverick

                @Cinnamon

                i concur. especially this sentence, “until a ring pops out, all else is up for debate.”

              • gonemaverick

                comment was meant for tooconfused. sorry all

        • MeowMeow

          I see! Thanks for clarifying about the times back then—what it was like (In practicality) and what the much maligned “Blue Laws” were really all about!

          • MeowMeow

            (The above comment i made was for Sir Guy about the implied “Rules” of courtship in the 20’s—30’s etc. Also to Cinnamon and Sir Guy: yes that is what I meant——I may not like what the man in question does with his personal life but since neither of us has made a commitment to each other I can’t really argue with his decision, although I may be too grossed out by it to see him in the same light again and that is the risk HE is taking—-to fall in my estimation……) But for TooConfused:

            Not that i know a great deal—-but a woman’s feelings, her intuition—-are hers and she shouldn’t have to explain them to anybody unless she wants to. That’s the feminine perogative regardless of how it makes men feel. And if your feelings were telling you to shut him (The man in question) out of your life, you have every reason to follow them. Sometimes we don’t listen to our feelings enough…..we make excuses for reasons why we stay in a relationship that isn’t working out, is abusive etc….

            I don’t mean to be Monday morning quarterbacking on you specifically TooConfused! But something similar happened to me in the past too, and the reason I asked Sir Guy about this situation was it brought up the dilemma that the woman who wants to save sex for marriage faces in a world filled with female competitors who have no such ideals and what her expectations of a suitor should be. One would hope over time his devotion would be growing such that he wouldn’t even think of leaving you alone for a week to go fool around with someone else. (Hence the red flag warning you felt.) Sad to say as Cinnamon wrote above i feel the “Manosphere” seems to be doing all it can to disparage women and marriage, and promote random promiscuity as a lifestyle. Young guys seem to hear this message, live it up as a “Player” then bemoan that they can’t find any “decent girls” to marry after they’ve had their fun, with no acceptance that they’ve been adding to the problem! It does work both ways but both sexes are finding themselves at an impasse….I fear for my daughter….

            However oddly enough i do think its possible for a man to act one way before getting married but take marriage itself very seriously once entered into.

  7. A.GuyMaligned

    Her Highness Tooconfused says, “I almost think it would be simpler wearing a huge sign that said “no ring no booty” and he would have walked away without me having to turn him down.”(He followed her out of the supermarket.)

    What a great idea. But, heck, no sign. Take him by surprise. Speak it. “No ring, no booty. Still interested?” You have just put him where you want every new man, on defense.

    Men will never change until women learn how and repeatedly make them uncomfortable. Why not in the supermarket parking lot? Or anywhere else in public when you receive unwanted, uninvited attention?

    Love to hear about any results.

    Tooconfused, darling, it’s a great training motto with potential to help restore female dignity. (We’re a long way off from a return to full ladylike behavior.)

    Guy

  8. tink

    Reading all of this this morning makes me think of this song….

    winks and blows Sir Guy a kiss… (((embarrassed giggle)))

    • gonemaverick

      @tink

      #giggling along

      • Cinnamon

        Yes, how do you find these songs, Tink? 🙂

        • tink

          Hey, Cinnamon… youtube! i have a list I go off from. if anyone is interested let me know and I’ll tell you were to find me. ((grin)) was playing with a new feature on my computer yesterday… skypi (sp??) yeah, I am so computer Illiterate and behind the times!! …giggle

          …you ladies should wonder to KQ Duane site given by Sir Guy. She was in dialogue with me about Betty Friedan. Whoa was all i was thinking!!!

          @ My husband’s wife…. giggle.. yeah i know, right?

      • My Husband's Wife

        Wow, I can only think of how “tame” this is. No exposed bodies or provocative dancing between the men and women, unlike today’s “booty shaking” and “stripper” outfits.

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