2161. Dating in Mid-life — Part B5: Conquest and Marriage Matrix


At 2159 Her Highness Emma wondered if “higher urges of sex drive or need for admiration” dismisses the urge for a long term union. I’m not sure alpha-ness, testosterone, or any other single feature is the ‘determinator’ of either a man’s drive to specialize at conquering women or his preference for a short or long term marriage.

A dating man can never completely know you. Conquest convinces that he knows you quite well enough to deal with you as he desires. On the other hand, the better you know men and learn to know one without having to yield, the greater your advantage. I know women are better readers of men than the other way around. While the table below may seem too abstract, it may well help you along.

The table presents the dating arena as three dimensional: conquest, marriage, and time, presuming that both sexes will appear slightly different at different times. It reflects the combination of mental ingredients and psychic determinations that I think contribute the most motivational force in each direction of the dating arena.

 HOW MEN PURSUE CONQUEST AND MARRIAGE  Self-esteem: How well he likes (high), regrettably dislikes (low), or even loathes himself (lowest) as a person.  Self-image: Picture he has of himself as an effective and easily satisfied man or, perhaps, the opposite, or somewhere in between.

 

Self-interest: His personal intentions and goals that urge him to action and inaction; the same way self- interest motivates everyone.
High interest in conquering many women. Low or lowest self-esteem; he can’t highly esteem others until they prove themselves highly worthy of respect and maybe not even then.

 

Dominant self-image; uses it to prove himself superior to women and men he can dominate or outcompete. Uses sexual excitement and achievement to earn self-admiration, personal satisfaction, and significance.
Low interest in conquering many women. High self-esteem; shares it by readily respecting others; has special esteem and even respect for the weaker sex. Self-assured self-image; satisfied with who he is and what he does; needs little from women because he can be easily satisfied by one.

 

Has other challenges than frequent conquests; other goals have better return on investment for his time and effort.
Not interested in long-term marriage; thinks more of not closing off options. Low or lowest self-esteem; has very limited ability to like others for very long time; tires easily of familiar personalities; seeks excitement.

 

Poorly defined self-image; easily frustrated and keeps options open to escape easily at his discretion. Has broad rather than deep interest in marriage; keeps options open to easily shift from tiring to fresh challenges.
Interested in long-term marriage; willing to commit with expectations for life. High self-esteem; likes himself so well he readily and enjoyably shares his likeability. Self-energizing picture of himself; eager to step up to greater responsibility. Envisions pleasurable life in companionship and challenge of greater responsibility especially for others.

 

12 Comments

Filed under courtship, sex differences, Uncategorized

12 responses to “2161. Dating in Mid-life — Part B5: Conquest and Marriage Matrix

  1. Emma

    Beautiful, we encounter man like this at all times. Some are even married, it takes time to identify the real motivator. Thank you for the post. I’m still trying to figure my husbands motivation – seems he falls under the high level to conquer

  2. Eric

    Sir Guy:
    Good list: I’m glad to know that my self-esteem is higher than I thought it was!

    It’s interesting because this goes so strongly against what popular culture teaches. It’s the males who are identified here as having low self-image who are held up to women as icons of masculinity and confidence.

    Sir Eric,
    Last paragraph: My perception matches yours.
    Guy

    • Miss Kitty

      its possible Eric, that many girls are born into BROKEN HOMES and never seen ‘normal’ so all they seem to like or have seen is MOM having friends who are users (her female friends unmarried) and think it is ‘SEXY’
      I’M hoping they don’t confuse or change the language into thinking SEXY will take the place of PRETTY

      I’ve also heard, that a man who is self reliant, has his own business and in contributing to society would have STRONGER self esteem and wouldn’t fool around with as foolish behavior as to go to bed with many women

      • Eric

        Miss Kitty:
        But the girls born into broken homes &c. still know intuitively what is normal and what is not.

        As for the men you described, that’s not necessarily the case. A Manosphere writer who matches exactly your description said this just yesterday: “there is unanimous agreement that you should never buy dinner for a woman as a date before you have had sex with her. This is probably the most unanimous point of agreement across all Game material from all sources.” For women, it’s ALWAYS of looking beyond the superficial!

        Sir Eric,
        If accurately copied, those guys are a disgrace to masculinity. I want to editorialize, except I’d neuter the purpose of today’s post 2162.
        Guy

  3. Tooconfused

    This Matrix is so clear and makes it easier for me to understand! I wonder if there’s a woman version. Thanks for the constant stream of updates, we’ve been really enjoying them.

    I had a question, too – it’s related to things that typically happen during the earliest stages of courtship.

    I’m also starting to feel like the earliest fears you have during courtship usually end up being true, it’s just that I typically err on the side of “give him the benefit of the doubt” when I could have saved tons of time.

    Just the other day this guy I’ve known for years (just an acquaintance) sent me a Facebook message asking if I was available for drinks. We haven’t seen eachother since middle school.

    Being the WWNH convert I told him I was interested in drinks and was friendly in my response but was busy for the next week or two. (Hard2get etc.)

    He messaged back, and said – “oh okay, well here’s my number, let me know.”

    Immediately I thought to myself … Huh??? O_O

    Before discovering wwnh I wouldn’t have flinched, I’d have probably contacted him already and set a date eagerly.

    But now I feel there’s something off even at this early stage.

    First of all, why couldn’t we just message back and forth via Facebook to set a date, or at least until he feels comfortable enough to ask ME for my number? I thought this was standard operating procedure.

    And second, why’s he leaving his number? I mean isn’t it the woman who leaves her number and the guy initiates? Am I fussing over something stupid? I know this sounds so minuscule but I feel like a part of me can already predict the future just from little things like this.

    I may also be overreacting or throw away a perfectly good drink date out the window. At the same time after my latest run in the battlefield I’m inclined to stay on the bench. Dating is rough.

    I’m going for the latter, but would appreciate blunt feedback.

    Your Highness Tooconfused,

    Your bluntness guides you well. Continue to trust your intuition.

    He took the easiest way out. It means you aren’t all that important yet. It appears he’s searching rather than reaching out to you. So don’t call him.

    No visuals since middle school? Only memories of your attractiveness linger in his mind. If he doesn’t have to invest himself to view you again, he won’t truly appreciate what he does see when you meet.

    Continue hardtoget if and when he calls again. There are two likely possibilities. 1) He was and is searching for someone. The search has been fruitless and he’s going back over his prospect list. Or, 2) if he was deliberately reaching out for you out of fond memory from middle school; hints and signs should enable you to figure it out sooner rather than later.

    Good intuition (it’s better than luck),

    Guy

    • Miss Eliza

      ‘I’m also starting to feel like the earliest fears you have during courtship usually end up being true, it’s just that I typically err on the side of “give him the benefit of the doubt” when I could have saved tons of time.’

      That’s red flag behaviour! Trust your gut – I do and am happy about that because it’s nearly always right.

    • Miss Eliza

      Oh and the guy giving out his number is apparently common over here in Britain too. From what I hear they do this on Tinder and other dating sites (which I don’t use). Like you, I think it’s very unnatural and I would refuse to initiate by phoning the guy up but it seems that many women must be doing so.

    • Cinnamon

      Tooconfused,

      To be a bit of a contrarian here, in the future I don’t see any necessity to be busy for two weeks next time you are asked on a first date. There is no reason to delay a first date unless you are genuinely busy, so long as you are not appearing pushy and over eager. For example, if a man asks for a date but doesn’t name a specific evening, do not say “What about tomorrow?” but instead say, “What did you have in mind?” If he says, “How about Friday?” and you genuinely want to go, say, “Yes, that sounds great.” If you are busy or want to delay for anther reason (for example, you want to get your hair cut before the date) say, “I’m tied up on Friday but it would be great to see you another time.”

      I don’t like his response “call me,” but I’m not going to bash this guy given the context of how this happened. We don’t have enough information yet about him. Keep in mind , men need encouragement that they will not be rejected. It is possible he is suffering from approach anxiety and trying to save face in order to avoid an overt rejection. As Sir Guy has pointed out many times, men need to be shown through indirectness that you are receptive to his advances.

    • krysie869

      I agree with all the responses to Tooconfused’s dilemma. If a guy expects you to call or approach him he is not that interested in you. The same is true for women too in my experience.

      But Sir Guy, I have a question for you: Why would a guy ask a girl for his number and not call her. There is a co-worker who I see from time to time (even outside of work) and he asked for my number. I gave it to him. But he has not called me although I have seen him a couple times since. Out of curiosity, I told him indirectly as possible something to the nature of “Someone asked for my number and still hasn’t called”. He immediately started laughing and told me that he was busy. My guess is that I am not of great interest to him yet, although I am curious to know why he would even ask for my number in the first place.

      Your Highness Krysie869,
      Perhaps to give it to a buddy?
      Guy

      • krysie869

        “Perhaps to give it to a buddy?” Wow! I wasn’t expecting your response. I can’t think of anyone I know that he knows he will give my number to. I assumed my personality is to blame although for the most part I am very friendly around him. I just don’t know what the problem is. I will say however that he is a few years younger than me. I don’t know if that makes a difference.

  4. SouthernBelle

    Sir Guy,

    Does this matrix of traits on conquest & marriage correlate with “type of cheater/betrayal” described in other posts?

    • SouthernBelle

      Sir Guy,

      I await your insight on whether this matrix of commitment correlates at all to the types of cheaters/betrayal you’ve previously informed us about. My curiosity is getting the best of me!

      Your Highness SouthernBelle,
      Yes it does. These guys are the most likely to cheat:
      • “High interest in conquering many women”
      • “Not interested in long-term marriage; thinks more of not closing off options.”
      Guy

      ☺️

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