2175. Dating in Mid-life — Part C8: Her Past, A Simpler View


You can’t shape the dating atmosphere to your advantage without anticipating what is likely to come up. This post is aimed at reinforcing the more practical side of a subject and admittedly aims more at younger than more mature women.

Perhaps the toughest test of your worth to Mr. Good Enough, can and will he accept you without knowing the details of your past sex life? He has four interests: to determine his comparative value as a lover, to prevent his embarrassment as your lover, to determine the likelihood of you cheating, and what really intrigues him: Promiscuous? With his friends? With someone he knows? Mistress? Shack up? Cheap? Easy?

It’s his nature; he’s born that way. Men begrudge anyone who went before them, and the begrudging varies with who are the individuals. Husbands can be forgotten as legitimate earners of your favors (unless you bring it up)—but not the others and some measure of too many or too much reflects harshly against not just you but more importantly him.

CAUTION: The Manosphere loudly broadcasts that women are equally entitled to sexual freedom and their history is of no concern to advocates of Game philosophy. Don’t fall for it, darling. Their philosophic values are founded on the supreme superiority of men over women to the extent that respect for women is non-existent. Their philosophic flavoring floats on Feminism, tends toward homoeroticism, and leans on Islamic values. Overall, it contradicts anyone’s interest in sexual discretion and monogamy.

Here are a dozen pointers to help shape the dating scene to your advantage.

  1. Your known past generates suspicions that override acceptances and assurances. Your unknown past generates fewer suspicions to eat away at the mutual trust you hope to build.  [241]
  2. Men seek and others often advise full disclosure. When men actively pursue more about your past, they can’t ignore and not use the information to shape their thinking. Talked into full disclosure, women expect fairness and equality. The male nature does not originate fairness for sharing sexual assets, and equality is a female concept that men don’t normally consider in human relations. [241]
  3. People argue that trust cannot arise without full disclosure. Hah! Trust arises from convictions drawn from beliefs and speculation about a person. Trust does not arise when specific knowledge prevents such convictions. [241]
  4. Full disclosure comes out uneven, unequal, un-repairable, because the male nature values a woman’s chastity far more than the female nature finds interest in a man’s sexual history.  [241]
  5. The harder a man works to draw details out of your sexual past, the more likely he will use it against you sometime, someway. Perhaps latently, indirectly, or vengefully. It’s available to hold over your head and to rationalize or recover from his own mistakes. [241]
  6. Forgetting your sexual past with lack of knowledge is far easier than forgiving what Mr. GoodEnough learns from full disclosure. The more he knows, the more he thinks. The more he thinks, the more he looks for the bad or unacceptable. The more unacceptable, the less forgetting. The less forgetting, the less forgiving. [241]
  7. Feminine intuition trumps full-disclosure. While not easy, you are blessed with the skills and expertise to withhold who, what, when, where, why, and how of what he doesn’t already know. Withholding information is not dishonesty. Disclosure means candid, accuracy means honest. [302]
  8. His spirit and willingness to give more than he takes may indicate his ability to honor your decision and help qualify him as Mr. GoodEnough. However, if he’s more of a taker, he may not honor your other expectations either. Such as these after marriage: Have kids even though he agreed. Or your desire to stay home and home school, when he wants more income in the home. Or support you in caring for a sick parent. [327]
  9. Your undisclosed sexual past defends your relationship, because his ammo box lacks your historical bullets to fire back in domestic squabbles. [327]
  10. The forward-thinking woman convinces all her female friends to never leak anything about her past to her dating partner, boyfriend, husband, or any other man. But this may fail too, because friends betray friends. They steal dates, boyfriends, lovers, and husbands, don’t they? Consequently, the wisest woman keeps her sexual history as secret as possible even from friends and family. [327]
  11. Former relationships may be known to your man, but no mention should be made or comparative details disclosed. It’s toxic in any relationship for you to disclose the relative sexual worth of one man to another, regardless of who’s the better. [302]
  12. Don’t think you can outsmart him by claiming he’s your greatest lover ever. You opened the door to his inquiry about how and why he’s the greatest, so you’re trapped into telling what you’re best off not to disclose.

The more that Mr. GoodEnough knows, the more likely he will make you pay some price for your past. Couples do squabble. You may never know or understand what’s happening. Yet, he may strike back because of your earlier sexual events. It takes very little for reminders of your past to grow into humiliation for him. Your history affects his sense of significance, whether you know it or not and accept it or not. 

I know this subject has been perhaps overheated and difficult to accept. Too much of a good thing can still be boring. Tomorrow’s subject is also a tender one that needs to be reviewed for mid-life dating. It’s submission, even though we all know that subject doesn’t apply before marriage. Preparation is easier than recovery, which is the not just everything but quite often the only thing.

 

11 Comments

Filed under courtship, Culture & Politics, Dear daughter, How she wins

11 responses to “2175. Dating in Mid-life — Part C8: Her Past, A Simpler View

  1. Sir Guy,
    I can see your point of refusing to disclose sexual history if she has one. What about in the case that she has little to no history? Something like a couple of short-term boyfriends and nothing further than kissing? Wouldn’t this add to his significance and thus be something she could readily disclose? Perhaps after his devotion has developed in order to prevent him from chasing her just for that?

    Your Highness Sourdujour13,

    Welcome aboard. It’s a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.

    I suggest you not disclose for several reasons, even if he starts prying:

    • You sound very young. Learn now to be more private, The more someone knows about you, the easier to take advantage of you.

    • Disclosure of virginity isn’t good for reasons explained in articles 935, 936, and 993.

    • You’re thinking ahead and that’s good. “Wouldn’t this add to his significance…?” No, it would not. He goes through the following process to add to his significance. He’s motivated to earn self-admiration, which produces some sense of satisfaction, which accumulates into his sense of satisfaction. IOW, if he doesn’t earn it, he doesn’t get it. Men do not appreciate unearned gifts, and your disclosure is unearned.

    God bless you, darling. If you’re as young as you sound, you’re one wise gal. Keep trusting your instincts and intuition and you will go well and far.

    Guy

  2. Tooconfused

    EDITOR’S NOTE: MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS following your questions in lower case. Guy

    Sir guy –

    In bulletpoint 8 you mention “he may be more of a taker” than giver.
    I notice a lot of men are not where they want to be financially nowadays, even when prepared to marry. Though they may want to give more. My girlfriends all bought their places and men moved in after marriage – lotta times they shacked up before. Sad sight, terribly sad. In my fathers’ day, he bought the house for my mother to move into after he married her.

    YOUR GIRLFRIENDS FIT IN THE MODEL DESCRIBED IN MY NEXT COMMENT.

    And I’m so curious, what kind of women attract the “taker” types? Is the common denominator always “low self-esteem” or simple as being naive .. Too assertive, aggressive .. ?

    FIRST, SELF-ESTEEM IS FORMED BY THE CARE YOU’RE GIVEN IN THE FIRST THREE YEARS OF LIFE. THE BRAIN HARDWIRES HIGH SELF-ESTEEM FROM WARM, CLOSE, NURTURING CARE. LOW SELF-ESTEEM ARISES OUT OF CARELESS, NOISY, DISRUPTIVE, ALONENESS, AND UNRESPECTABLE TREATMENT.

    SELF-ESTEEM STOPS DEVELOPING IN THE THIRD YEAR OF LIFE. IT’S HARDWIRED AND YOU LIKE OR DISLIKE YOURSELF AS A PERSON TO SOME DEGREE FOR LIFE. WHEN YOUR CONSCIOUS MIND OPENS ABOUT THAT TIME, YOU BECOME AWARE OF HOW YOU’RE TREATED, INCLINED TO AGREE OR DISAGREE, AND BEGIN TO DEVELOP THE REPROGRAMMABLE SOFTWARE THAT IS YOUR SELF-IMAGE AS A FEMALE.

    WHAT KIND OF WOMEN ATTRACT TAKERS? THOSE WHO HAVE ABANDONED FEMALE-THINK TO COPY MALE-THINK AS PROPAGANDIZED BY FEMINIST-THINK. SELF-ESTEEM HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THEIR MOTIVATION. WOMEN ARE DECONSTRUCTING THE SELF-IMAGE THEY GENERATE NATURALLY IN EARLY CHILDHOOD AND REPLACING IT WITH A MASCULINIZED IMAGE BUILT ON IDOLATRY OF SEXUAL FREEDOM.

    THEY FOLLOW POP CULTURE CUSTOMS THAT ARE CONCEIVED AND SUPPORTED BY MEN (THINK TV, MEDIA, AND MANOSPHERE) IN ORDER TO PROMOTE MORE AND EASIER CONQUESTS. WHERE PATRIARCHY IS IN TOTAL CHARGE, FREE AND EASY SEX IS THE STANDARD.

    WOMEN CONTROL ACCESS TO SEX. IT USED TO BE THAT WOMEN NEED A REASON, MEN ONLY NEED A PLACE. NOW WOMEN PROVIDE THE PLACE, AND MEN FIND THE REASON AND EAGERLY TAKE MORE THAN HAVING TO GIVE. WOMEN HAVE REVERSED THIS FACT OF NATURE, WHICH MAKES IT UNNATURAL: MEN DO WHATEVER WOMEN REQUIRE FOR FREQUENT AND CONVENIENT ACCESS TO SEX. NOW WOMEN DO IT.
    WOMEN ALSO SEEK TO BE POPULAR OR AT LEAST NOT DIFFERENT, AND SO THEY BACK INTO WHAT’S DEFINITELY NOT IN THEIR LONG RANGE INTEREST. INSTEAD, THEY FOCUS MOSTLY ON THE PRESENT, WHICH MATCHES THE MALE NATURE AND IGNORES THE FULFILLMENT OF GIRLHOOD HOPES AND DREAMS.

    In the past, I noticed I felt comfortable around “takers” and felt awkward letting a man “give” – it must have had something to do with feeling inferior – but where could it come from ?? My dad took me when I was little and bought me barbies all the time – it’s not like my dad deprived me of nice things. Anyway – only after several years studying your blog did I start inviting more generous men into my life.

    BOYS AND GIRLS ARE DIFFERENT IN GENERATING THEIR SENSE OF SELF-WORTH. A BOY’S ARISES SOLELY OUT OF HIS ACHIEVEMENTS AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT, WHO HE BECOMES IN HIS EYES AND THE WORTH HE ATTACHES TO IT. A GIRL’S SELF-WORTH ARISES PRIMARILY OUT OF HER EFFORTS TO MAKE HERSELF IMPORTANT TO OTHERS COMPOUNDED BY GIFTS THAT CONFIRM IT.

    IF A GIRL DEVELOPS A LOW SENSE OF SELF-WORTH, SHE DOESN’T THINK SHE DESERVES A MAN TO MAKE HIMSELF WORTHY OF HER. IT MAKES HER WANT TO GIVE OF HERSELF RATHER THAN EXPECT HIM TO LIFT HIMSELF UP TO WIN HER FAVOR.

    For example you said “single women don’t pay” and going “dutch” is unnatural. In the beginning it was so difficult for me to wrap my head around this and years passed by where if the man I was casually seeing was “broke” I did not mind paying most of the time.

    YOU WERE JUST LISTENING TO THE EARLIER INFLUENCES OF FEMINISM. SOCIAL VALUES UNDERWENT REVOLUTIONARY CHANGES. MEN WENT ALONG TO GET ALONG WITH EASIER PARTING OF THE LEGS. WOMEN BEGAN TO HELP PAY BECAUSE THEIR SELF-IMAGE DETERIORATED FROM PROVIDING SEX WITHOUT IT BEING EARNED BY PERMANENT OBLIGATION AKA GUILT.

    But I started trying it your way and never even flash my wallet on any dates now. Confidence grew within me as I saw that I didn’t have to pay, and they didn’t mind paying! In fact dutch behavior really creeps me out in general. STILL, was it just low image of myself that was attracting such “takers” in my youth?

    YES, YOUR SELF-IMAGE GOVERNED THAT AND ALL OF YOUR BEHAVIOR. BUT NOT LOW IMAGE. SELF-IMAGE ISN’T HIGH OR LOW. IT’S HELPS OR HINDERS, AFFIRMS OR DENIES, PROMOTES OR DEMOTES YOUR SELF-INTEREST, WHICH IS YOU PRIME MOTIVATOR.

    IOW, SELF-INTEREST PRESSURES YOU TO ACT. SELF-IMAGE GOVERNS HOW YOU ACT AND MOSTLY WITHIN THE EXPECTATIONS YOU’VE SET FOR YOURSELF BY FIGURING OUT JUST WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE. SELF-ESTEEM LURKS IN BACKGROUND WITH THIS FOUNDATION: I LIKE MYSELF AS A PERSON OR I DON’T. SELF-IMAGE DEALS WITH HOW WELL YOU LIKE YOURSELF AS A WOMAN. (SELF-ESTEEM FORMED BEFORE YOU KNEW YOU WERE FEMALE.)

    If it has anything to do with self-esteem it’s something I need to work on. I have a huge problem with inspiring chivalry in men. I prefer to do it all myself. Being single in this market so long, bills are paid – shelves and tables are built by me. Can’t live like a cave woman anymore!

    FORGET WORKING ON SELF-ESTEEM; IT CAN’T BE CHANGED. YOU EITHER LIKE YOURSELF AS A PERSON OR YOU DON’T. WORK ON IMPROVING YOUR SELF-IMAGE AS A WOMAN. WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU CAN DO, WHAT YOU CAN CHANGE TO DO WHAT YOU PREVIOUSLY HAVE NOT DONE OR BEEN ABLE TO DO. YOU’LL FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF AS WOMAN, WHICH HELPS COMPENSATE FOR LIKING OR DISLIKING YOURSELF AS A PERSON.

    • Dove

      I used to think that going dutch was the way to go – thinking that easing off the burden from the guy will give him more reasons to stay with you. Thinking that it’s my half of the work required to maintain the relationship. Which isn’t the case; unfortunately I learned this the hard way. It had nothing to do with self-esteem – I was trying to be more “logical” (or pactical), rather than following my heart.

  3. Emma

    I can attest to this policy, although my dating history was low one boyfriend prior, I never disclosed much about it. Honestly, it was non of his business and neither was mine to know his. My way of addressing this was very direct, we were still courting when he brought up the; how sexually are you? And how many people have you been? I felt insulted and horrible that he would make such a request to me. So my response was after a few hours / my past is not important and I honestly don’t care to know yours unless you are currently active with someone else and if you are I must know because I wish not to participate. After this I went silent for a whole day. This topic was never brought again. I must say that I ended marrying this man and whenever we got in a fight he would mentioned the ghost of my ex – someone who I dated long before him and he has never met. So man do worry about th me exes and so wonder, I thought it was interesting the least.

  4. Simplicity Evermore

    [The forward-thinking woman convinces all her female friends to never leak anything about her past to her dating partner, boyfriend, husband, or any other man. But this may fail too, because friends betray friends. They steal dates, boyfriends, lovers, and husbands, don’t they? Consequently, the wisest woman keeps her sexual history as secret as possible even from friends and family. ]

    I need help here. I am a pioneer in my family. They don’t agree with this wwnh stuff. I don’t have any relatives on either side of my family that agree either. (Feminist on one side, cranky stubborn old goat on the other. )

    Right now, I don;t even have friends that agree with this stuff. (So I’m getting pretty hard headed about this. Because I’ve come too far and lost too much trying to be WWNH to go back now.) I’m not saying this for pity. (Don’t pity me -_-)

    My Dad believes in full disclosure prior to dating. (The nightmare is that HE and Mom both want to fill in my future husband) He believes that we should sit down infront of him (BF and I) and talk through all our boundaries with each other. I’ve tried this with a couple of guys…

    Part of me feels like this is a good thing because verbally I get a thumbprint of where the guy is emotionally. (Assuming of course that he’s honest.)

    Part of me feels like I’m loosing because now he knows everything.

    and part of me wonders: WHAT WILL I MISS IN DATING if I don’t find out everything now.

    Also, since my parents don’t respect my standards, how will I get FH (future husband) to respect my standards after he’s met them?

    Your Highness Simplicity Evermore,
    I disagree mightily with your father on both counts. You should feel ill at ease. Neither full disclosure nor witness to your affairs is any of his business, unless you’re not over 21. Between 18 and 21 it might be okay just to help train you with some adult maturity. In either case, you will be responsible to father for your future relationship, courtship, and marriage.
    Guy

    • Simplicity Evermore

      I’m older than 21. But I live at home right now. I’m asking because I don’t know how to handle it. Wouldn’t not obeying my father be rebellion that would undermine a relationship with FH? Since I’m not putting dad first, how would that affect my relationship? I don’t have the money to move out, or I’d do it. (Though I do have a job.) I have to bring these guys home at some point don’t I? Or should I really put an effort towards amassing money and moving out?

      Your Highness Simplicity Evermore,

      Methinks I backed myself into a corner. You posted six other large comments today expressing significant understanding of men. I figured you’d also know how to handle your father. Squirm, cajole, plead, beg, ask forgiveness, get in his lap, and enlist mom to help escape unwanted, unorthodox, out-of-date supervision. Or, adding some other female talent and guile, get him to relent, back out of your adult personal life, and put the issue to bed with a smile on the face of both of you.

      I can easily imagine his defense. As long as you live in my house, you’re part of my affairs. When you’re on your own, I’ll leave you there. You’re my baby and a good father is responsible.

      He can’t say it but fear may motivate him. Did he and mother raise you strong enough? Can you be trusted to do what’s good enough by their expectations?

      Probably, he’s just being an old fashioned father, in which case he’s unlikely to change unless you can make him uncomfortable with his position.

      After those considerations, I can’t find a way to overcome except by daughter’s love of father.

      There is a benefit I overlooked. Bringing the guys to meet your father is a helluva great screening method. If they dodge it, they fear it, which means they’re unwilling to face fear on your behalf. Huge red flag. If they chicken out on you because they can’t stand father’s inquisition, they aren’t willing to face a future with you. Huge red flag. If they stand up to father’s questions boldly, truthfully, dynamically, and face him down, they will earn his respect and it will not be forgotten throughout your married life to that candidate. That’s one big qualifier for Mr. GoodEnough.

      You know best what to do.

      Guy

      • Simplicity Evermore

        Didn’t mean to dump my truckload of problems in your lap.

        Your Highness Simplicity Evermore,
        I’m not here for that but pleased that you’d think of me.
        Guy

      • Cinnamon

        Sim-Sim,

        From your description, it sounds like you have an old head on young shoulders and that you are wiser than both your parents on these particular matters. It’s not the first time I have come across such a dynamic.

        I’m not sure how to best deal with your father, but I think it’s important not to cave into his thinking on this matter. If this means moving out eventually and gaining more independence from his influence, so be it. I do not say this disrespectfully. What I am saying is, though he no doubt loves you very much, on these matters of grave importance (far more important to you ultimately than to either him or your mother) though he may be well-intentioned he is certainly not wise. Trust your heart, keep your own counsel of necessary, and act accordingly.

  5. Southernbelle

    Sir Guy,

    Where does His Past fit with sizing him up as a MrGoodEnough? Both what he shares and what is learned from others. If he brings it up is it still not good to prove further? The thing is I don’t know what I’m looking for exactly to feel better. Just disappointed I suppose.

    Your Highness Southernbelle,

    Yes, his past contributes or not to his good enough status. If he opens the subject, it’s fair game for you to pursue or question. Why not? But don’t you reciprocate; keep yours to yourself. Make him earn such info over the course of many dates ahead.

    You should be looking for red flags, those things that could possibly contradict or be malaligned with your heart, mind, experience, and expectations.

    If you’re disappointed, start spending more time each day at your biggest mirror. See posts 2123 through 2127.

    Guy

  6. Aidos

    I’ve been wondering about this recently, because consistently on first dates, men are asking me how many ‘serious boyfriends’ I’ve had – which, to me, is an indirect, subtle way of asking about sexual history.

    I used to be very transparent – but also promiscuous. Neither worked in my favor. Now, I try to find a polite way to redirect the conversation. If asked directly, I simply say that the only thing I’d be willing to discuss is a health risk. And since I’m disease free, it’s an inappropriate topic.

    Your Highness Adios,

    Good work, well done. Smart gal.

    Even ‘health risk’ is saying too much. It implies a sexual history, and I suggest avoiding that completely.

    You may find many ideas for maintaining silence by reading my series on Virtual Virginity in the CONTENTS page.

    Guy

  7. southernbelle

    Sir Guy,

    Your thoughts about a post on “His Past, A Simpler View”?

    Your Highness Southernbelle,
    I continue to think on it.
    Guy

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