2182. Dating in Mid-life — Part D6: More Tips for Interacting


This series is ending, but I offer a few miscellaneous tips.

  1. Females fish with full disclosure, as if males appreciate it as much as women do. You want him to be sure to know who you are. This gives a guy info to reduce his risk. First date may result, but less risk means weaker investment of his self, which means less effort to uncover weaknesses to get you into bed, which means less discovery of your virtues, which translates to less worth and respect of you, which weakens prospects for second or subsequent date. [489]
  2. Feminine assertiveness compliments a woman. It has far more bonding power than sex, because it earns respect for character strength and independence that sex does not. [501]
  3. Feminist aggressiveness doesn’t compliment women. It offends some men, turns off some others, and makes wusses of the rest. [501]
  4. Hard-to-get charmingly and modestly justified can overcome and perhaps overwhelm male dominance. [495]
  5. Having speculated about evidence, guessed about unknowns, and concluded that you might yield sparks his emotional interest. You’re more worthy of his investment. Rational thought confirms he should probably ask you out. [491]
  6. He may be a player. Beware vague and unavailable (V&U) aka he plays ‘hard-to-get’.
  7. How you program your mind about yourself conditions a man’s thinking about you. If you think you’re not worthy of his time, effort, and money, he’ll treat you less than you want and respect you less than you expect. OTOH, if you sincerely deserve his best effort, time invested, and bucks spent, then he’s much more likely not to disappoint you or himself. [495]
  8. Men believe more easily and firmly what they figure out by themselves. Conclusions drawn are stronger than firm knowledge, because they require investment of self. Conclusions also get emotions involved, and we’re all emotional decision makers. [491]
  9. Men seek to reduce risk, but they thrive on it when the goal is attractive enough. Working their tendency backward produces this. The riskier the endeavor, the greater their satisfaction for achievement. This adds value to and respect of you, if you hold out long enough for a man’s achievement to rank in his heart and mind and also justify his effort. IOW, his big investment pays off with a great return. It’s that process by which a man’s heart becomes devoted as he seeks to maximize his return on investment. [487]
  10. Much like resume placement in job interviewing, the purpose of first date is to get second date and so on for each subsequent date.
    1. These feminine traits prompt invitation. Mystery, female modesty, unique femaleness, seemingly irrational unpredictability, sexual attractiveness, physical attractiveness, self-respect, self-confidence, outshining other women, gentle but restrained friendliness, bold reaction against offenses to your dignity, apparent independence, and reflecting little apparent interest in him until he earns it.
    2. The greater the risk and the tougher to gain your acceptance, the more valuable you become right off. Your value always goes up with his investment of time, effort, and money. The more he invests of himself, the more he invests of himself. Men are not foolish enough to abandon an investment before it’s a lost cause. However, some men don’t give up after just a mini-investment, if they want the reward more than anything, such as in love at first sight.
    3. What makes him ask anyway? Your sexual and physical attractiveness and his confidence that he can sell you on himself. (If he doesn’t start out in the seller role, he will likely not fill it very well later. He might pull back and expect you to become the seller and reward him after a smaller investment of himself.)
  11. When he finds out on first or second date that you’re into chastity until marriage or Mr. Good Enough comes along, two outcomes are most likely. You no longer interest him. Or, he seeks to become his image of Mr. Right for you. It’s not what you tell him, it’s what he concludes from what you do and say. [491]
  12. When you behave such that he feels challenged just to ask for a date, he measures the risk of rejection. When you’re worth the risk, he’ll do the asking. If you present yourself as little or no challenge, he’ll take the easy way out: “Come on up to my place.” Or “Meet me at (the watering hole).” [491]
  13. Make up your mind about who pays for dates. I suggest study of 2040-2042 and comments attached thereto.

All of the above aims to describe the nature of males of all ages. Tomorrow we look at the more sexual side of early involvement.

21 Comments

Filed under courtship, Dear daughter, Her glory, How she wins

21 responses to “2182. Dating in Mid-life — Part D6: More Tips for Interacting

  1. Magnolia

    This blog is amazing. It just keeps getting better and better… 🙂

  2. JuJu

    I really don’t think the last article should make any girl reading here angry or upset and I am trying to digest every letter of this series as I embark on a relationship with an imperfect but incredible man and at least a Mr. Goodenough. He recently disclosed to me that he is not a virgin (I assumed likely because of his age) but said he believes in chastity til marriage. He knows I’ve been tricked before by “optical illusions” online and makes a grand effort at disclosure and also follows up on his words with actions, gentleman, etc. He told me he’s always had a problem knowing how forward he should be with women. We are taking forever (fine by me). He asks me to keep him accountable regarding certain things, and when I ask him about them he acts grateful for it. He recently told me I can ask him anything. I want to ask him if he watches pornography. Do you think that’s too forward? I was advised by a pastor once to ask that of any guy I get seriously involved with. Even though his sexual activities may have been in the past, I just always pictured a test. I’ve read your series on that btw. Thank you for what you’ve given me to think about here.

    Your Highness Juju,
    About asking him porn, I can’t recall a tougher question aimed at me for which you expect a reasonable answer. I’ll try but I need more time. Perhaps not later than Monday.
    Guy

    • JuJu

      Good deal and thank you very much, Sir Guy! Going to hold out on my reply to him til I can consider your advice as well. FYI the preacher was talking about how rampant and prevalent it is today, which is why he advises all girls to ask guys with serious intent toward them whether they take part in it. What a painful question for me to ask. I want to know, but I don’t, but I do….

      • Cinnamon

        Juju,

        Apologies in advance for the following what is a bit of a rant on my part.

        I’m looking forward to Sir Guy’s take on this, but in this instance, I would NOT ask him directly. What I would do, however, is inquire indirectly/gently about his views on the subject of porn in general, perhaps not now but as you get to know him better. Does he see it as a destructive force in society, not just for women but also destructive to men and children and a stable, respectful society? Moreover, does he care about what happens to those who are exploited and destroyed this industry, often because they were born into the wrong circumstances (without loving parents/adult authority figures)? Whether he had struggled (or was struggling) with an addiction in this regard would be far less important to me then whether he viewed it as an intrinsic evil.

        This is a huge qualifying issue for me. I was lucky in that my Mr Goodenough volunteered early on his views about porn without me asking. If he hadn’t done this, I probably would have brought it up by starting a discussion about sex on TV and in movies, and parents who expose their kids to such material. What would his views be on this type of parenting? etc.

        The fact that our culture is saturated in porn and it is easily accessible doesn’t make it any less wrong, and I think it’s important to remember this can be such a temptation even for the best of men. There are lots of resources for dealing with this addiction. I know one Christian man who kicked it, with help and support. The men I am worried about, however, are those who don’t see a need to kick it because they don’t see it for what it is. They would automatically disqualify as a “Mr Goodenough.”

        Any man who claims to be a Christian but who sees porn as “no big deal” is a man whose life is not in synch with his stated beliefs. He has too much cognitive dissonance. Avoid at all costs.

        NB: I write this from a religious perspective. With respect to non-religious believers (such as tooconfused) I’m not sure how this issue should be approached.

        Your Highness Cinnamon,
        It’s a beautiful and accurate rant. Well done.
        Guy

        • JuJu

          Thank you, YH Cinnamon. What you say is very fundamental to a Christian. We have talked indirectly about the forces in society that are destructive and i don’t doubt this guy believes that about porn. I am very much considering your point, and believe in it, as well. But I want to know also does he deal with it, and still struggle with whether I should ask and if so, how.

    • A.GuyMaligned

      Your Highness Juju,

      I’ve started this response three time before this one. It’s tough, so I always go for the simple and clear when I encounter it.

      I hereby turn your question around. Not should you ask, let’s presume you have already asked. What are the likely outcomes?

      • He dodges and refuses to speak directly to the subject. It’s immediate disqualification as Mr. GoodEnough. Not only does he watch it, he’s hooked, which is as hard to deter as tattoo removal.

      • He responds No, not no, but hell no. He’s not Mr. GoodEnough either. If he’s not a seminary graduate, and maybe even then, don’t believe him. Use Cinnamon’s strategy to dwell deeper into his psyche in search of what he really believes by how he reacts to certain stimulations by you. He laid a minefield with his declaration, so let him stand up to your mine detection (red flag) inquiries. You’ll figure out what is best for you.

      • He responds No and calmly proceeds to condemn it as socially irresponsible or something akin to that and blasts the influence it has on society and relationships and perhaps cultural values and standards. Perhaps too purposely in order to sell his case. He isn’t disqualified as Mr. GoodEnough, but you need more info. Over the course of time inquire as Cinnamon suggests to explore and confirm his deeper feelings about the industry and impact on society, culture, and families particularly. If all goes well with your inquiries, he may qualify at least on this issue.

      • He responds Yes. Cinnamon’s strategy again is good for proceeding to explore his belief system about it. You can anticipate from his responses just how honest, well intentioned, and intensely he supports or demeans the subject. It doesn’t necessarily follow that he abides all that closely to his belief system, but that may come out later.

      • He responds Yes, but…. Perhaps he promises to quit, or has been trying, or wants or expects to leave it out of his married life. It sounds good to you, but it gives me pause. I want to figure out whether its evasion, equivocation, uncertainty, hedging, or lack of will power that makes him unsuccessful this far along. Cinnamon’s strategy could help here too.

      • He responds Yes or No and goes into full disclosure mode. He confesses that he’s bad for doing it. Angry with himself. Can’t help it but knows he should correct a bad habit. If he keeps his unloading totally focused on relieving himself and his guilt, you can trust your intuition and figure he probably can qualify as Mr. GoodEnough. However, if amidst his tirade about himself he frequently mentions or promises good intentions to please you and will do things just for your upcoming marriage —e.g., you deserve it, husbands shouldn’t view porn, it’s bad for wife, etc.—then suspicion should set in. He’s disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst. Both should disqualify him.

      In the end, Juju, the purpose of asking the question should be not to uncover his habits but to uncover his character. You marry his character and only inherit bad habits. Wives can do a lot about bad habits but virtually nothing about poor character.

      So now, you may not know what’s best for you. I think the womanly way is not to ask, and I thereby think Cinnamon’s suggestion is good strategy for you.

      My masculine nature inclines me to ask, but I wouldn’t be asking in anticipation of marriage. Men judge on respect and character and I would want to know for general purposes. Is he good enough to work for me or do a certain job or fill in where I need assistance? If porn could interfere in those situations, I would ask. But marriage with permanency probably calls for something else,something lighter, something feminine, something indirect.

      Let me close with my personal recommendation. If you don’t ask and without blaming, accusing, or threatening, keep him uncomfortable by expecting high quality character. Inform him that you don’t care if he does or doesn’t view it at this time. You don’t want to know. However, you need his permanent withdrawal from viewing porn of any kind at any time. It’s his choice. Don’t respond now but gift it to you as your next birthday, anniversary, or Christmas present. He vows for life that he will end on the day he gifts it to you, the day he chooses. Explain it’s vital to your well being as a person, woman, wife, friend, and sex partner. Except for safety of children, it’s the most important need in your life. That is, to know that he is so devoted to you, marriage, and family that he will sacrifice the urge to follow the evil side of life.

      Good luck, darling, you’ve a tough road ahead but God made you equal to the task.

      Guy

      • Cinnamon

        Sir Guy,

        On Bullet Point 6, you write:

        “if amidst his tirade about himself he frequently mentions or promises good intentions to please you and will do things just for your upcoming marriage —e.g., you deserve it, husbands shouldn’t view porn, it’s bad for wife, etc.—then suspicion should set in. He’s disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst. Both should disqualify him.”

        Why is his expressed desire to please her such a red flag? I don’t understand the distinction between this response and the first response you describe in the same paragraph, where he takes guilt on himself. What is the difference?

        Your Highness Cinnamon,
        The difference is he goes too far. He isn’t looking for her forgiveness to relieve his guilt. He promises her he’ll be a good boy to relieve the on himself. He’s not contrite, he’s in selling mode.
        Guy

      • JuJu

        Sir Guy,

        I’m taking this, like everything else you write, straight to heart. Thank you so much for taking the time to so thoroughly “go there” for us!

  3. Tooconfused

    I want to ask guys I date if they watch porn too.

    But why would they be honest about it if you asked?

    This is the only time I’ll consider going up to a man’s apartment or into his house while we are dating. Perhaps to sneak onto a computer and check out its browser history? LOL.

    Honestly though it is so much better though that the man watch porn while courting you over him pursuing and bedding other women? Or is it just as bad????? I can’t even tell.

    Your Highness Tooconfused,
    Porn is usually worse, because women suffer more from emotional infidelity than physical unfaithfulness. More will be included in my response about asking directly aimed at Juju in a day or two.
    Guy

    • JuJu

      Hi YH Tooconfused! I actually think the right guy would be honest about it, if he truly wanted intimacy with you, and not just the physical part. My thing here is also, if he says yes, where do we go? How do I help? Would /should I want to help? It’s so scary as we know porn is everywhere and accessed by so many. There’s a lot to show that it’s not simply a matter of “it’s not the real thing and not as bad,” the way it destroys, desensitizes, makes people unable to relate to real people. Sir Guy has a lot on the blog about how to deal with porn in a relationship in real-time.

      In my case I’m counting on this guy to be honest with me. He seems sensitive to the fact that I’ve been lied to several times before and tells me he has nothing to hide from me/wants to hide and told me to ask him anything. He seems to have assumed the “seller” role. He is a bit older (in his 50s, I’m 30) although I know that doesnt mean anything one way or other. He felt he had preaching aspirations that he did not live up to (again, this doesn’t mean porn isn’t in the picture!) He asks me to hold him accountable about his Scripture readings…which again doesn’t mean anything concerning porn.

    • Tooconfused

      Yes – I see your point. But technically these porn films are simply that. Films. Those are characters in a movie and it is fake. This is like me “cheating” on my boyfriend because I watched an action film with Paul Walker in it. Yes I can imagine myself having a fling with Paul Walker but it is a movie. My emotions tied with those films are artificial because the movie is artificial and the emotions depicted unreal. The character is also not the character he is in real life. Therefore my feelings for Paul Walker aren’t based on facts. Just frames per second.

      If he isn’t having chats or emotionally investing himself in these virtual characters how can it be considered infidelity?

      When it comes to porn and the man I may be dating, I pretend it doesn’t exist. It’s everywhere, like DNA. It’s accessible on mobile phones through a google search. There’s no barrier to entry like before. Its ubiquity is so horrendous that my only form of protection is that “it doesn’t exist”. Shouldn’t the government crack down on internet porn? Can we place 100% of the blame on the man watching? If it were harder and more illegal in access I’m sure the man would think twice.

      I guess dating has become so challenging for me that I’m willing to alibi for men, just a little bit. It depends I suppose. Like suppose the man I marry will love me even after I have had one too many twinkies. Suppose he is loyal to me in everyway even after I have become a Land Whale. Will I let him get away with some virtual fun? I might. It depends on how badly I want those twinkies.

      • Miss Gina

        Hi Tooconfused,

        I suppose I can see the temptation to ignore porn. Yes, the government should crack down on it. Yes, we should be gracious and recognize the temptation is everywhere. But we must also recognize that within porn are the seeds of the death of a marriage. The easy road will not leave us happy, and we can’t wait for someone else to do something. I think learning to handle such an intimate, delicate subject can only strengthen a good relationship in the long run (if you can negotiate that minefield, you can negotiate anything).

        Studies show that porn tends to change the way men see and relate to all women, particularly love interests. Over time, porn users see women more as objects to fulfill their desires than as individuals to build relationships with. They lose the ability to bond.

        Porn users generally become dissatisfied with their real-life partners. They also expect them to act like and enjoy the activities portrayed in movies. Since the movies are made by men (often the producers are homosexuals), these are not necessarily activities enjoyable to heterosexual women, but gay men. Love and mutuality are not involved.

        A man who indulges in porn is not “just” watching a movie…The intensity of the porn experience actually rewires the brain, and eventually porn users become unable to function physically with a real woman. (The last two paragraphs come from the research of Dr. Judith Reisman.)

        Furthermore, the addiction–like any other–tends to lead in a downward spiral to more degraded material. This is how otherwise respectable men end up addicted to porn that involves young children or rape and murder of the subject. (Research of Dr. James Dobson.)

        A nephew of mine spent three years in federal prison for porn involving children under 12. He had been a youth minister and missionary, and the story made national news. Besides his lost career, the cost to his wife and sons is incalculable. An addiction to “regular” porn which his wife knew of and tried to ignore served as the gateway.

        A friend had a marriage that broke up entirely due to a “regular” porn addiction that the husband would not admit. The emotional and physical dysfunction were tremendous. Their young children were exposed when my friend tried to show them a children’s movie on the computer. (Another danger of porn in the home.)

        Dr. James Dobson and Dr. Judith Reisman have done some wonderful work on this subject. A search of either name with “porn” yields some lots of research and great resources.

        Sorry to come across a such a downer. Porn purveyers want us to think it is harmless. It is not. I do think it is possible to handle and expose this scourge compassionately and courageously…our kids are counting on us.

        Your Highness Miss Gina,
        Thank you for beautiful craftsmanship. Perfectly timed, aimed, and clear. Yes, it does reprogram the brain against normal relations with women.
        Guy

  4. Eb

    Hello Sir Guy

    I’m a long time reader of your blog (since when it started!) and let me just say things have gotten worse and worse. Still holding the line on chaste dating but I’m still single, now running into divorced men. Would you kindly do a series on this cohort?

    Your Highness Eb,
    Yes, but it may take a week.
    Guy

    • Eb

      Thank you Sir Guy. BTW I meant that the dating scene gets worse and worse, not your blog! It has helped me tremendously over the years.

      Your Highness Eb,
      Not to worry, darling. I did not misunderstand. You point was clear.
      Guy

  5. Eb

    …and also on 10.3: am running unto this pull back thing but I stay in my buyer lane and stick with my game plan and 10:4: what kinds of things said would a guy conclude that you are chaste without directly saying it?

    Your Highness Eb,

    You ask, “what kinds of things said would a guy conclude that you are chaste without directly saying it?”

    It’s hard to tell. It depends on his curiosity, imagination, and what info he previously collected about you. But, you’re best off if he never concludes whether you are or are not virgin or whether or not he is the only guy denied. Mystery keeps the subject off the negotiating table and keeps him focused on finding your weakness while absorbing your qualities as virtues.

    The numbers 10.3 and 10:4 confused me and still do. Not necessary to explain unless I missed some meaning that you intended to convey.

    Guy

    • Cinnamon

      Eb,

      This one is easy to answer: it’s not what you say, it’s what you do that allows him to conclude this. As a long-term student of WWNH, you know that men like to figure things out for themselves, including the motives and standards of women they are dating. The best advice, apart from an occasional offhand comment with a slight smile, is to say nothing and let him draw his own conclusions. If he respects your perceived standards you win, and if he doesn’t and departs, you also win. So if you adopt this simple method you always come out the winner!

  6. Mia

    Dear Sir Guy,

    I’ve recently been highly confused over the behavior of some of my acquaintances and would kindly ask you to perhaps clarify and comment, if you can. (Sorry about the long post..)

    I work in an environment in which feminist-thought runs rampant. I have come to observe this and am trying to change jobs, since I feel it influences me. I have a colleague (senior to me), who is shacked-up with her boyfriend, who she does not respect. She wants kids, he is somewhat reluctant. Marriage does not seem to cross their mind. She is now on the look-out for a „better alternative“ and doesn’t miss a chance to hit on men without mentioning her boyfriend. These men seem to find the behavior unappealing. Why do these men seem so uniterested? Can they sense that the women isn’t virtuos? What is your stance on feminist brainwashing in a work environment? Should I beware? I don’t unterstand what goes on in people’s minds that keep their options open. I recently met the man I wrote about in „A Guy out of her Past“ at a social gathering with his girlfriend. (turns out she really is a feminist) Tried to ignore them as much as possible, but they sat close to me. In a quiet moment he started badgering me about my private life and got annoyed when I declined to answer. A common friend later told me that had been asking her about me too. I wonder how deep the love for the girlfriend/boyfriend is in these cases…Do these poeple love their partners?

    On a completely different topic: Another friend, who is also living with her boyfriend has now got engaged, but it seems to me that she wants the wedding more than the marriage. He is a very nice man, but they have very different backgrounds and educational levels. I am not entirely sure whether she has considered what their life will be like in 10-20 years. I would like for her to get married, but am afraid that it may turn out badly later on. Do you think these kind of differences are crucial?

    Your Highness Mia,

    MY RESPONSE IS IN CAPS following your questions in lower case.

    “These men seem to find the behavior unappealing. Why do these men seem so uninterested?” BECAUSE HER ACTIONS SIGNIFY THAT SHE’S DESPERATE, WHICH MAKES HER GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT BEDTIME.

    “What is your stance on feminist brainwashing in a work environment? Should I beware?” ABSOLUTELY. DON’T ASSOCIATE WITH THEM EXCEPT IN THE LINE OF DUTY ON THE JOB. WE BECOME LIKE THE PEOPLE WITH WHOM WE ASSOCIATE. JUST LIKE MOTHER SAID AS SHE TRIED TO PREVENT YOU PLAYING WITH KIDS SHE FOUND TO BE TOO IMMATURE FOR YOU.

    “In a quiet moment he started badgering me about my private life and got annoyed when I declined to answer. A common friend later told me that had been asking her about me too.” IT’S TEEN BEHAVIOR THAT INDICATES PRETTY FIRMLY THAT HE’S ADULTOLESCENT.

    I wonder how deep the love for the girlfriend/boyfriend is in these cases…Do these people love their partners?” ADULTOLESCENTS DON’T LOVE DEEPLY. DEEP LOVE ARISES OUT OF ADULT MATURITY.

    “Do you think these kind of differences are crucial?” ABSOTIVELY, POSILUTELY.

    Guy

    • Mia

      Sir Guy, I’m grateful for your direct answers. They confirm what I suspected intuitively. Your comment on my place of work struck me particularly. I thought about what you wrote and am convinced that my co-workers’ mindset will eventually rub off onto me, if I stay there. And I don’t think a woman can truly thrive in such surroundings. I finally got sick of the guy out of my past’s constant questions and figuratively kicked him in the shins. He then disclosed that he had wanted me as his girlfriend back when I was close, but added that the past can’t be undone. In all of this, Sir, I have trouble trusting my own judgment. To you this behavior and insights about work-settings may seem transparent but I am often clueless. When it comes to important topics so many thoughts pop up in my head that I can’t figure out which ones to trust. I wonder if there’s anything one can do about this and if the ladies here also have this problem…

      Your Highness Mia,
      I’ve only had a couple of confirmations that it works, but may I suggest you study and follow the procedure described in the mirror time series that starts at 2123? Your best friend will call up those important topics before they come up, and enable you to decide ahead of time what’s best for you.
      Guy

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s