2346. Tribute to the Female Nature — 02: Tame Men


Men are not as impervious to female influence as they act and women react. Over time each man reflects what he’s learned from the women in his life, just as long as those women don’t remind him of it.

Whether about gender or an individual, you ladies know the shortcomings of men and how you wish they were different. They will be when you make yourself different from those who can’t keep a husband today. One on one and one at a time. It takes one woman to tame one man to her wishes, hopes, and dreams. You were prepared at birth, but many must relearn how to use it.

God, Nature, and hormones make woman very capable and consequently make women the superior gender. Each is the irresistible force facing off against the immovable object. But the force is born with the advantage: She CAN withhold sex to encourage the immovable object toward marriage instead of yielding and making marriage unnecessary to satisfy his conquering spirit. Provided, of course, that marriage rather than sexual pleasure and him rather than someone else is what she’s truly after.

It starts the moment they meet. The kickoff is her feminine more than sexual attractiveness. The latter attracts every man; the former attracts men more interested in her than just sex. Her qualifications to lead one or more of those men into a successful relationship continues for life.

Men seek to marry a virtuous woman. Virtue is whatever quality a particular man admires. Some men take a very long time to find ways to admire a woman. In the meantime, each woman is well prepared from inborn traits and skills to convert his blank time into progress for her.

It works with one woman and one man. You are born more than capable to outperform any man at the relationship but not the societal level; at the emotional but not the physical level; in your home but not in public; with domestic principles, values, and standards but not social impulse and displays of power; with indirectness but not directness; with patience to outlast rather than resolve problems immediately; with ability to outsmart rather than manipulate; with premarital competition instead of cooperation; with marital cooperation instead of competition; with more concern for the future than the present; with deferred rather than immediate gratification; with relationship management skills rather than being led by a nose ring; at compromising rather than fighting out differences; with love rather than vengeance; with silence to avoid uproars; with acceptance of faults to avoid blame; with more loyalty to one person than interest tied to others; in marriage more than shack up; in stopping at resisting and resenting rather than retaliating; in devotion to husband, self, and his job over home and family; with compassion for the weak more than respect of the powerful; at deferring to the powerful to ensure good relations with and for your provider/protector; at liking yourself in spite of temporary messages to the contrary; in fulfilling responsibility for others instead of just self, and through learning to use sex before and enjoy it after marriage and not vice versa.

Tomorrow, I tackle the blame game.

22 Comments

Filed under courtship, Culture & Politics, marriage, sex differences

22 responses to “2346. Tribute to the Female Nature — 02: Tame Men

  1. Shermy

    Great post Sir Guy!

  2. Stephanie

    I swear you wrote this for me. I have been reading your blog for years. most of those years i was to wounded and fearful to even date. I just started dating again recently. As usual I have been bombarded with men trying to get me. It has been very good to date lots of men because I can tell the difference now and I can also see how I made so many stupid mistakes in the past. But then I started to get the feeling that Mr good enough was right in front of me and I could blow it do to they mayhem. Most the men I dated would throw up a red flag or so I assumed. Maybe I just didn’t trust them. We are only talking first and second dates though so I can’t be sure. Except for one. He kept throwing up green ones. He was aware of me dating others and was respectful and supportive.Yet he still had the balls to tell me how he felt and that he only wanted to pursue me. The rest of them failed miserably in that area. I can’t juggle men so i need to reduce my dating pool. There are so many things I should want if I can have any man i choose right? But the man who has a big house on the hill, cars bikes,a boat and a plane has to go and sent me a text after our first date that say’s “I could not tell what you wished for. I mean if you had money what would you do? Something from your soul.” Not only that he texted it after I told him I turned him down for a date the nest day and told him I would talk to him in two days after I went out with this other guy I liked again. He just kept on texting. Is he stupid? Does he not know that there is nothing my soul wants that can be bought with money? It doesn’t really matter because he didn’t respect what i said and I had to tell him to get lost.

    So I went on a date with the man I felt was a good honest man from the moment I met him and who has been a perfect gentleman so far, Keep in mind this is only a first date and talking and texting on the phone. So i met with him again to get to know him better and he was even more perfect than i could have ever imagined. Yet he is far from perfect. He lives in a trailer. It’s a double wide trailer but still. He has had a worse childhood than me too! That is scary! But I know he is good. I can feel it. I believe every word that comes out of his mouth which I had come to believe I would never be able to believe a word that came out of any mans mouth again. That’s why I was planning on doing the logical date lots and make them prove themselves way of doing things.

    He was getting lost in the mayhem of my dating. I hardly knew him. He was nothing like what I expected or envisioned. But after all my other dates I felt doubt mistrust annoyance or many other things just by questioning a second date with them. Even though they had done nothing wrong. Then I remembered how I felt after My dinner date with him. He looked like he was gonna piss his pants when he first saw me. It was adorable! But after the date I went to the grocery store to buy stuff to make him cookies and bought him an orchid because he said he liked them. I remembered your blog though and thought WTF I can’t do to that after a first date so I didn’t give them to him. But what in the hell possessed me to do that. It was only dinner no fireworks no being swept off my feel by his societal status. Now all my dates just make me think of him. He has nothing I am supposed to want and need from a man. He is a blue collar worker who leads a simple life. But from just what I have seen and heard and felt from him so far. He has everything I have always wanted in my heart and soul.So is it ok to stop dating others until I see where it may go with him? Or do I keep dating in hopes to find a man like him who has money too? I don’t even want too. My dates other dates just make me see how much I like him. After my date with Mr money bags I couldn’t quite thinking about him. I missed four freeway exits and ended up in a different city because of it on my way home. I know I need more time to get to know him and follow all your advice. I know he will be a perfect gentleman it’s myself I worry about 😉 jk Do you think sometimes you just know? That even though it was nothing you expected you just know it’s what you have always wanted and better than you could have ever possibly imagined? Because it is. It’s different. It’s like this deep knowing in my soul I have no idea where it comes from. Have I gone mad? Do you believer it is possible for a woman who due to her nature could just know? I’m taking a big risk by even pursuing it due to how I feel. I’d be blowing off lots of potential suitors to do it as well. I haven’t dated for five years because i have been learning how to love myself and healing some old wounds from my past.I can’t shake this feeling I just know he is the one. I guess time will tell and i will know If I am truly able to trust myself. Along with all of your advice of coarse. If he is the one I want to do it right. Thank you so much for your dedication to this blog. I’ve learned and grown so much over the years. You are like the father i never had. Thank you Sir Guy!

    Your Highness Stephanie,

    After a five-year layoff, you’re coming on too strong. Too much wishful thinking and brighter hopes. It’s too early for you to make decisions about ‘best guy’. If you’re so ‘turned on’ to him that others fade away, it’s okay but too early to take it as gospel for living your life—yet.

    Pull yourself back within yourself—that is, don’t be so eager to confirm what’s right for you. Look for what’s right for him. Cool it a little. Give best guy opportunities to know you better, see how much more he can admire you and thus make a virtuous woman of you, and give yourself more time to weigh his actions vs. his words.

    You know how you feel, but you don’t know yet how he feels. You want him devoted to you, but all I see so far is that you can easily devote yourself to him. It’s not enough. Don’t make your commitment until you see the whites of his devoted eyes.

    Don’t be discouraged either. You’re in the right place with right opportunity. Time is your guiding partner.

    Guy

    • Cinnamon

      Beautiful story, Stephanie. Thank you for sharing it. (I’m sure many of us can relate). And please come back and update us soon!

    • Stephanie

      I know I plan to take it slow. I know how he feels I only told you how I feel. he knows I’ve been dating and has some tough competition. I just can’t get past this knowing feeling. when I have no way to know yet. I plan on waiting for sex. He has gone ten years without it he can wait a little longer I’m sure. There is much more I need to know about him. The feeling of knowing just gets worse every time he opens his mouth. It’s the strangest thing. But yes i definitely need to make sure he loves and is devoted to me for me. A lot of men will act that way to get me but they are really in love with some image of me they have in their mind that i look familiar too. I will be careful and try not to get my heart broken or break anyone else in the process. Men can be so whiney! I think that is why i like this guy he is not. Thank you for your advice I’m definitely gonna need it because I really have no clue what I am doing.

      Your Highness Stephanie,
      You are doing fine. Don’t think of giving; think of taking. He has to earn you and not you earn him. Remain the buyer. Make him a better seller and disclosing your heart will not make him a better seller but swerve into the buyer role.
      Guy

  3. Stephanie

    Thanks and I will, I’m seeing him again tonight. It feels like such a big leap to even consider falling in love. But he just keeps throwing up those green flags. I’m so glad i had this blog so I could recognize them. I’m almost 45 years old. It’s about time I get it right. I will keep you posted either way though.

    • Cinnamon

      Stephanie,

      Pay careful attention to Sir Guy’s response to you.

      A word of kind warning – there is a type of Mr Vague and Unavailable who comes on very strong (“green flags everywhere”) then for no reason does a 180 turn, in other words, he blows hot and cold. Such a man can really mess up your confidence and your head. I am not saying you should suspect this of him, but just warning that it could happen with ANY man, no matter how appealing he appears. The only way you guard against it is to follow Sir Guy’s advice and use hard-headedness. As President Reagan famously said, “Trust but verify.” Keep your hopes and eagerness inside your heart but temper that hard-headedness with softheartedness. This will give him the chance to reveal his character and intentions to you over time.

      Sir Guy once said something about longing versus dreaming with respect to a mindset when looking toward the future. If I remember correctly it went something like this: Longing is focusing on the deficit in your life whereas dreaming is about focusing on what you are confident you will someday achieve. Don’t let yourself fall into a pattern of longing for this specific man but rather focus on dreaming with a future Mr Goodenough who has yet to reveal himself.

      • Stephanie

        Oh I am all to familiar with the type that comes on strong and blows hot and cold. That is why I quit dating for rive years. I am watching many others who are throwing up red flags acting just like one. I liked this guy because he didn’t do that when the rest of them were. But time will tell. i appreciate all the feedback and yes I am familiar with baggage reclaim too. 🙂

      • This is a powerful statement: “Longing is focusing on the deficit in your life whereas dreaming is about focusing on what you are confident you will someday achieve.”

        Even with the invaluable advice of What Women Never Hear, I am not sure how to get from longing to dreaming.

        Last summer, I had to hear from a guy that he just wanted to be friends and was not sure if he’d ever be married again (after two divorces in which he was the innocent party). And over a year later, I am still trying to shake him out of my heart and head.

        Long story short (or not as long as it could be), I got to know him at church; saw for myself his honorable, godly character; heard others reinforce what I saw.

        I got to know him through conversations and activities at church and conversations on the phone, dinners at his house and mine, a special dinner date for my birthday. We had serious conversations about his very difficult life struggles. We joked as well. He gave me a nickname.

        Friends encouraged me and prayed for me, even my pastor seemed positive about the possibility of a relationship developing (AND he was kind enough to ask me if I thought it would be useful for him to meet with me and the man who said no).

        For the past year, I’ve tried to deal with maintaining my sense of confidence in the future and giving the man who said no both space and respect (which he deserves richly; he has never been less than honest and honorable in how he treats me; clueless maybe, but never dishonorable). It’s been difficult since I see him at church every Sunday.

        Several times since then he has talked about being friends, and I have made it clear that I don’t want to be friends, that I want more, that I am not willing to have a relationship with him which would be so safe and risk-free as to be meaningless. So basically, our relationship boils down to saying hello in passing in church.

        Last Sunday, I overheard two folks talking about the man who said no, that he would not be at a church function because he was going to have lunch at someone’s house in order to meet a “Christian girl.”

        He has his life and his dreams, and he has the right to make relationship choices as he sees fit, but this overheard conversation was very depressing to me. I don’t want to hang onto something that won’t ever “work out” because I can’t imagine anyone better than him, and I don’t want to drive myself crazy and become an eccentric old maid because I can’t figure out how to completely and finally get him out of my heart and mind.

        The only thing I can think to do is to leave my church of thirty years and go to another church so I at least don’t have to see him anymore. That would be heart-wrenching.

        I just don’t know what to do to make things right, to let things go and get on with my life.

        Your Highness Edith,

        Welcome aboard. It’s a great day when another pretty woman joins us on this cruise to WhatWomenNeverHear.

        Please pardon my boldness but I find you on the wrong track for what you hope to find and get out of life.

        • Scotch-Irish? Good stock.

        • Cranky? Not good. See today’s article about blame (2347)

        • Egalitarian? Very ungood. It presumes men and women are not different and suggests they should think and act alike.

        Now, as to your past practice. If he’s such a good man, keep him closer for several reasons:

        • Good friends are extremely valuable; men are also much easier to attract into closer relationships if you let them do it by themselves. Do not apply pressure; actually let him conclude that you’re hard-to-get.

        • You have common friends and church. Don’t throw it away. He may have a friend of even more interest to you.

        • You can teach yourself to manage unrequited feelings. It’s good self-discipline too.

        • Unreturned love is a price that women pay throughout life, simply because they expect so much. They deserve it, God bless them, but other people just ain’t that accommodating.

        Now, back to the top of your comment. To get from longing and dreaming.

        • Tell your friend you accept his offer of friendship. Accede to his desire about it and set out to earn greater respect from him. Give his curiosity and imagination time to work. May take year or more. If you don’t open that door for him to peer deeper into who you are and what you can mean to him, he’ll find a ‘Christian girl’ and his interest will be forever lost to you. Forget all the crap about equal exchange of attention etc. Show him how a good woman can be friend and no more. Exemplary leadership as friend has tremendous influence.

        • Read the Path to Victory at blog Home. Focus on what you want (dreaming) and spend little or no time focusing on past and present (longing).

        You will get what you spend all your time thinking about. Pining, yearning, and misery produce more of the same. Dreaming, aspiring, and new actions and habits produce a different view and way of life. Take your friend along a new path for yourself, and expect no more of him than friendship.

        Guy

        • Thanks for the honest response.

          Obviously I’ve been on the wrong track regarding the man I am concerned about. Otherwise I would not (I think) be here.

          I may have created the impression that, over the past year, I’ve been really forward about saying I don’t want to be just friends, but the time has really been about keeping as much distance as possible, not creating drama, not manipulating.

          I did say recently, “I still admire you and respect you, maybe more now than a year ago.” Was saying that little amount enough to create pressure, panic, a desire to run far away?

          If I am not supposed to be putting undue pressure on somebody, how can it be seen as no big deal if I’m suddenly saying, after a year of minimal interaction, “I’ve changed my mind, let’s be friends” . . . ?

          I’m not sure how to be hard to get AND “open that door for him to peer deeper into who you are and what you can mean to him.”

          Guess I need to read Path to Victory and get a clue?

          Your Highness Edith,

          You have it right. You don’t need to say anything to him. Just quit acting as if you have been and become friendlier, which mean no expectations of him.

          If you shift from longing to dreaming, you can perhaps mention some of your dreams, intentions, goals, objectives for the future that don’t include him but could be of interest to a friend. Just innocent conveying of new interests.

          Yes, and study the Path to Victory about pursuing dreams. It not only works but what he hears differently out of you will not include him and relieve any pressure he may feel.

          Guy

          • In order to move forward from longing to dreaming, I’d like if possible to put to rest (or kill or decapitate or whatever) this puzzle: if the man I’m concerned about wanted only friendship, why did he behave in a way any woman would read as strong interest?

            He invited me to meals at his house, he accepted invitations to meals at my house, he took me out to dinner.

            He wore his kilt for me on my birthday.

            He said the first time I spent time alone with him, “I want someone to grow old with, someone I can go to Home Depot with and pick out flowers for the back yard.”

            He shared the story of his life in depth with me and brought me to tears with stories of family tragedies and his struggles to make two marriages work, to cope with being left in the lurch by two wives, to raise three children on his own.

            He organized guys from my church to help move furniture when my niece came to visit with a truckload of furniture from my mother’s house (she had gone to live with my sister, and her household was being dismantled).

            It’s is probably the least convincing evidence of serious interest, but he even gave me a nickname.

            We got to the point of the just friends discussion after our interactions ramped down. Understandably.

            His work at that point was hectic and distracting; apparently because I used a word once that was a red flag to his e-mail program, my e-mails to him started going into his spam folder so he would find them a week or a month after I sent them; he had a lot going on with his siblings and with his children. So I heard very little from him.

            I told him that it was frustrating for me, but I understood that he had stuff he had to deal with, so I was going to back off and let him deal with whatever.

            His response was: did you think there was anything romantic going on? He was sorry if he gave that impression. He just wanted to be friends with a lot of different kinds of people.

            My response was, “You’ve been married twice; you’ve lived with two women and had sex with them and dealt with their stockings hanging in the bathroom and other woman stuff; you’ve raised a daughter. How could you not know how what kind of impression your words and actions would make on a woman?”

            And I still don’t know the answer to that. All of my women friends and even two of my men friends saw what he was doing as romantic.

            He’s not a jerk. In comparison to other men I’ve known, he is so decent and honorable and worth admiration and support. I don’t know anyone else like him.

            I have to assume that he did and said a lot stuff out of naivete and ignorance, but given his life experiences, I don’t understand how that’s possible.

            One reason I don’t want to be “just friends” is because I don’t want to spend any more of my life trying to “get” what a man “really” means when he says and does anything in **any** kind of relationship with me. Clearly I have been a pretty big failure at that every time.

            If I don’t interact at all, I don’t have to guess and get it wrong.

            But of course if I don’t interact at all, I end up alone.

            Your Highness Edith,

            He’s twice burned at marriage; he failed twice. Probably sworn against it again.
            I suspect that he was trying to get a sex relationship going with you and you resisted sex or whatever he was after in the name of friendship. So, he gave up, but I bet he’s trying to be and may already be a player.

            Wore his kilt? Scotsman? They tend toward frugality. Could that play a part? Depp alimony/child support obligations? Any financial room left for a decent life with someone else?

            All those romance signals are good evidence that his intentions were not originally honest. Can you handle or even wish to have a dishonest friend? It’s your choice, it would seem, from the newest picture you presented me.

            Moreover, the history you cite makes him a very poor candidate for marriage, so spending your time is probably wasted. Move on unless you have other reasons not to.

            Guess and get it wrong or don’t intereact and end up alone. Hasn’t that been most of the options that women face throughout life until they find the ONE? I only mention it to say this: You are a successful woman, so don’t let one man determine your life. Only you know what’s best, tho.

            Patience, darling. God gave you plenty of it. Dream more of what you want and long less for what you can’t or shouldn’t have.

            Guy

            • In retrospect, it’s possible that, due to two failed marriages and some family of origin issues, “the man” is not being honest with himself about what he wants or needs in his life and so cannot follow up a stated desire for someone in his life with honest, confident, definitive action.

              I can grant the existence of that type of self-delusional dishonesty. My own delusional thinking is what has gotten me into trouble over the years.

              But based on a whole lot of things, I **cannot** buy that he would screw around with my feelings deliberately and try to get something from me that I will not give a man outside of marriage.

              He may want to be a player, a cool ladies’ man. (Based on what I’ve read here, I’m guessing even the most monogamous, straight arrow, reliable, loyal guy has many moments when he thinks how great it would be to have the whole female half of the world think, “Ooh, he’s the best.”) But he’s not a player. He’s not out trying to actualize ego-boosting fantasies. He’s too busy for that.

              He fills his life up with activities related to work, family, church, never-ending home improvement projects. Last summer he came home from work every evening and worked until dark digging, planting, hauling huge rocks around in the back yard.

              He always looks tired and beat up. Keeping insanely busy seems to be his way of not having to think about things.

              I would move on if there were a really strong reason to. (Because truth be told I am as guilty as “the man” is of using someone to fill my thoughts and time and boost my ego.)

              I have made it abundantly, annoyingly clear to friends married and single that I am interested in meeting someone. But nothing has come of that.

              Since I have not been in the get married and have babies age range for a number of years, there is no biological imperative to find a mate.

              Since I am a Christian and believe in God’s ability to heal people body, mind, and spirit and to bring unexpected blessings out of horrible circumstances, I find myself wanting to hang around and see how good will come from a situation that so often seems humanly impossible.

              But I do need to, pardon the expression, get my head out of my butt and do something useful and interesting with my life and stop being paralyzed by my past.

              Thank you for taking time to provide both a clear, simple reality check and some gracious affirmations. Acting on what I have learned will make for a very lively late fall and winter this year I’m sure. 🙂

              Your Highness Edith,
              Congratulations on your decisions. You’re an intelligent and strong woman and make choices after deliberate thought. You can’t do better. If I helped, I’m proud. But I’m prouder for having watched you go through your agonies and come out the winner.
              Guy

              • MLaRowe

                Hi Edith,

                I know you didn’t ask me but I’d like to just say that my “player” warning flags were going off as I read about this also. Even in a church setting, even with all this “what a hard worker” persona he has.

                We women want the fantasy but the reality was that when you didn’t lose your head over him (and try to get him by offering sex- I’m guess both you and he are fairly attractive) well, he moved on and tried to blame it on you (all that email going to spam stuff sounds like nonsense to me).

                You did a good job not falling for what I believe you may, in the future, come to find out was nothing but a con.

              • Hi, I am responding to your comment about “players.”

                I am very certain that this guy, like any guy, wants to have a woman in his life to give him what men crave as a source of self-esteem and stress relief and all that other stuff. And under the right circumstances–marriage–I would be delighted to give him what he craves.

                I find it fascinating that it all comes across as somebody trying to con me out of something. Because basically, he did and said a lot of things, but as far as I’m concerned, he did it in a half-assed way.

                He essentially performed for me, did a lot of guy stuff to impress me, “Here are these fancy meals I made for you thanks to my experience in food service . . . here is a tour of my yard which I landscaped all by myself . . . Here’s the story of my life in which I am the wounded hero struggling to survive despite being stabbed in the heart.”

                He would make gestures but never follow through.

                I tried my best to state that because of these things, and because of a lot of other genuinely genuinely caring and thoughtful things he did for others at church, I did admire him and respect him.

                But did he respond by getting closer, by holding my hand, by giving me a kiss, by getting in my space and staying there? No.

                Well, once he gave me a big hug in the hallway after church, and I said (because I didn’t want to be disappointed if he was just messing around) that he should not do stuff like that unless he wanted me to take it seriously. And he stopped.

                I don’t know how religious or non-religious you are, but there are men who take the Christian faith seriously. They want sex, but they are going to do it the “right way” in marriage. I don’t know how this guy handles wanting sex and not getting it as a single guy who has some sort of values. Maybe he masturbates. That has its own potential problems . . .

                But I find it fascinating that his basically tentative, half-assed, insecure behavior marks him as a player. Maybe he is and he has fooled even his closest friends. In which case, I need to run as far away from him as I can go.

                I appreciate your perspective because it is a reminder that, even in a good relationship, it does not pay to be naive.

                Edith
                – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
                MLaRowe
                11/15/2015 at 6:09 pm
                Hi Edith,

                I know you didn’t ask me but I’d like to just say that my “player” warning flags were going off as I read about this also. Even in a church setting, even with all this “what a hard worker” persona he has.

                We women want the fantasy but the reality was that when you didn’t lose your head over him (and try to get him by offering sex- I’m guess both you and he are fairly attractive) well, he moved on and tried to blame it on you (all that email going to spam stuff sounds like nonsense to me).

                You did a good job not falling for what I believe you may, in the future, come to find out was nothing but a con.

              • A.GuyMaligned

                Your Highness Edith,
                The more you explain, the more I read gay.
                Guy

              • “Gay” is a heavy-duty label to lay on anyone.

                In the course of my life, I’ve known a number of men and women who identified themselves as homosexual. You know, “born this way,” supposedly born with a deeply rooted attraction to the same sex.

                Such a thing is impossible from my perspective since I believe human beings are incapable of truly sexual behavior before sex hormones start kicking in and having an effect in adolescence.

                What I think happens is that, starting at an age where they are too young to remember, some people are denied affirmation of themselves as male or female, denied positive role models in their parents or other adults, denied any sense as they grow up that they can succeed in functioning in the world as male or female.

                Without any encouragement or confidence that they can cope with the challenges of being a man or woman (including romantically engaging the opposite sex) such people, in searching for a way to feel valuable and secure, choose basically not to grow up. They choose to remain in the safety of a world that is basically made in their own image emotionally and eventually sexually.

                I say all that to say . . . the man in question did not have that kind of life growing up. He had a dysfunctional family, yes, and he had issues being bullied in school because he was short, but nothing I’ve heard about his life has sounded like the lives of my homosexual friends.

                Again, everything I’ve observed of him, everything he has said about himself, and everything others have said about him, the types of relationships he has with other men and with women . . . everything points to a straight guy who has relational conflicts he can’t get seem to get a good handle on.

                He has a set of spiritual values that he takes seriously. Sex is meant by God to be experienced in marriage. Period.

                He’s been married twice, badly burned twice. He wants the comforts of marriage, meaning sex, and he wants to “do it right,” but he doesn’t want to get burned again.

                So he’s like the feral cat I had in my yard some years ago . . . the cat would lie down in the grass and look cute and approachable, but the minute I made a move toward him, he would run away.

                And the one day that it appeared he would let me get close enough for him to sniff my hand, he got spooked and bit me in the leg. I looked for several weeks as if a dwarf vampire had attacked me.

                Homosexual behavior is not that conflicted. People who choose genuine homosexual behavior eliminate conflict for themselves when they seek intimate satisfaction with a member of their own sex. They don’t have to worry about being misunderstood by an intimate partner, they don’t have to worry about someone else’s motivations, and they don’t have to worry about the label of Ultimate Loser that our culture gives those who fail repeatedly in intimacy with the opposite sex.

                If you look at my life, I “read gay.” The last time I had a genuine no-doubt-about-it boyfriend? More than forty years ago in college. The last time a man kissed me the way men kiss women? More than thirty years ago. The last time I went out on a regular, reliable basis with a man? More than twenty years ago.

                Who do I hang around with when I’m not stressing at my job or trying to recover from my job? Other women. Who do I go to the movies with, take trips with, seek advice from? Other women.

                But I want more than anything to be married to, have sex with, provide support and encouragement for, be loyal to, and love a man.

                The more I reflect on events of the past few years, the man in question is probably not that man.

                But it’s not because he “reads gay.” It’s because he reads sad, broken, conflicted, and in need of a sense of confidence and purpose that only God can restore to him. And until that happens, my support and encouragement, my admiration and respect will have little impact.

                Your Highness Edith,

                I agree with all you say about gay. I agree and admire your description of the process by which it happens. (Much simpler than the way I describe it.)

                You’ve taken a good measure of his past life. Your assessment looks accurate too.

                My thoughts narrow to this condition. “He’s been married twice, badly burned twice. He wants the comforts of marriage, meaning sex, and he wants to “do it right,” but he doesn’t want to get burned again.”

                Consider that one or both wives denied, discredited, and demeaned his masculinity in bed. Women easily resent lack of intimate closeness as cause to blame lack of love-making skill. It can make some guys turn gay. OTOH, others can easily fall into the feral cat mode you mention. Too spooked to try again. Perhaps that’s what you face.

                One last thought that you’ve not mentioned. You can’t change anyone else. You can only change yourself. Ditto for motivation. How do you appear to him? Do you make special effort and preparation to see him in church? Groom and dress your finest? Try to appeal to him as unique female rather than sex object? Uphold your dignity but also pay attention and try to appeal to the visual interest of other men? That’s the front door to any relationship, the man’s eyes.

                Guy

              • gonemaverick

                “His response was: did you think there was anything romantic going on?” player tendencies. i would have left his sorry butt there and then and never looked back.

              • I am grateful to this discussion for pointing out and naming “player” behavior on the part of the man who has occupied my heart and mind for way too long now.

                If I had had any sense that he liked to mess with women’s heads willfully, maliciously, with a desire to control and humiliate and get emotional and physical goodies without commitment . . . I would never have gone near him.

                I think I’ve definitely suffered from his emotional dishonesty, but I think it’s mostly a case of him being dishonest with himself: dishonest about how much he’s been hurt by previous relationships AND dishonest about how much he still wants intimacy and connection, meaning of course sex.

                I can’t exactly leave his sorry butt behind and never look back since we are members of the same church and interact on a regular basis in that context.

                But it’s pretty clear that, at this point, I definitely need to give him space and leave him alone to sort his life out . . . if he can.

                If he were a genuinely bad guy–selfish, calculating, bent on making women pay for his uhappiness–it would be very easy for me to ignore him.

                But he’s not a bad guy. Just messed up and struggling to find a way out of the mess. That’s what makes it so hard.

              • gonemaverick

                Edith hi,

                your being a Christian makes all of Sir Guy’s advice difficult to swallow and reconcile because as Christian girls we believe the best of others.  we forget this though: all of us are imperfect.  remember this always: we are men and women first before we are Christians.  i know it sounds like such a non-Christian thing to say but as Sir Guy always points out, we first default to how nature endowed us before we stop and think.

                i read this somewhere a long time ago and i quote,” Stop MAKING EXCUSES for a guy and his behaviour. Look for patterns of stability/instability: how MANY TIMES have they been married? How QUICKLY did they marry? What REASONS do they give for PAST DIVORCES/BREAK UPS? How many “crazy” ex’s do they have?  because sometimes, it’s NOT everyone else who’s crazy.

                Know when to cut the cord.  Don’t be strung along.  When it’s time to let go; let go.  There is someone out there worthy to be in your life. Let out the trash so he can come in.”

                do stick around though. one day you will look back at all of this and not believe how far you have come and this guy will be a distant memory because you will either be happy alone or in a loving relationship.

                #i’m gonna shut up now.

              • The problem I’m having at the moment as a Christian, is not the whole deal of getting a reality check and dealing with stuff and moving on. I have a real issue with thinking of someone who is my brother in Christ as “trash” that needs to be taken to the curb.

                He is someone who is clearly messed up in some sad ways, but that is the nature of all human beings, Christian or not.

                We all have areas of being VERY messed up. It’s not an excuse; it’s a reality. I have major messed-up-ness in my life. But to God, neither I nor the man in question are trash. We are his loved children whom he desires to help heal and mature into the people he made us to be.

                And!!! Though the man in question was not honest with himself or me about some things, I have seen him struggle with some things in his life that would have killed me long ago, and I DO admire him for . . . I don’t know, struggling to understand stuff and find healing rather than become bitter, jump off a bridge . . . whatever.

                Yes, obviously I have to step back, be grateful for lessons learned, pray that he finds healing, let God work in his life, and move on.

                But he’s not, not, not trash.

                Thanks for *your* concern. You obviously feel strongly about things, and it’s that kind of honesty that I wish someone had been willing to pound into my head three years ago, twenty years ago, forty-five years ago when I fell in love for the first time at age seventeen . . .

  4. Stephanie

    I don’t know what I was thinking. Thank you so much for your responses. I think I just wanted to quit dating, but I am not ready to trust anyone. I’m like a 44 year old retarded child when it comes to this stuff. It’s so scary. But whatever the scenario Guy’s advice will work. But men are smart. I think that guy was just a better liar than the other ones. We come from two differ rent worlds anyways. Not only does he live in a trailer. He has two big dogs. Dog poop and slobber is a deal breaker for me. I keep my house and yard meticulous. I hate dating. I try to make it fun but I feel like I’m hurting lots of men’s feelings. At my age most of the men are happy to even get a date. They try to get you to themselves long before they even try anything sexual. How many men would you say a women should date at one time? While she is looking for the one? It could take a long time to find a Mr good enough. All men put on their best behavior and will morph into whatever you desire for as long as they need too.. Are they really so pushy and whiny because they see me as a piece of meat to conquer. That is a really scary thought. Why do they try to act like such gentlemen while they do it? It’s confusing! It’s hard to take it slow when they push so fast.

    Your Highness Stepanie,

    How many to date at one time? All that you can and eliminate them as red flags appear. Quit looking for the one. Look for disqualifiers and not what makes a guy appealing. It’s a process of elimination. The one is the last one standing after all the others have been disqualified.

    Before that confuses you, let me add this. If he’s stayed with you that long, you must be valuable to him.

    Yes, you are a piece of meat to conquer, if you choose to call it that. But it distorts life and confuses you. The most dynamic urge in men is to have sex with every sexually attractive woman. You deal with it best when you exploit a man’s urges to your advantage, which comes from taming him to believe in you as his greatest promise for having a mate worth his time, effort, and money.

    Guy

    • Stephanie

      You know the strange thing is if you tell men that you will run if they press sexual stuff to fast. It’s amazing how well they will control themselves. I had an astrologist friend of mine come over and remind me why I am the way I am. Sad thing is is that it will be rare if not impossible to find someone who can connect as deeply as me. I can find someone I’m compatible with though. I’ve been easy to manipulate in the past due to my nurturing nature and desire to heal all the broken people in the world. You are so right in everything you say. I have to have this attitude because It keeps me from being manipulated. Men can be so aggressive to get what they want. If I follow your advice I am just as aggressive but I’m also the one who gets to chose who I include in my life. It’s time I take care of myself instead and find someone else who cares about me as much as I do. I do hate juggling men though. But I’m learning to have a different attitude about it. I should just be grateful I have to opportunity to do it. Sometimes I think to many men make it harder to find the right one. I’m determined not to settle until I do.

  5. Stephanie

    I truly can’t thank you enough for all of your advice Sir Guy!

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