2527. Tips for Women — II


  1. Think and act as men do regarding sex, and the lack of dignity, respect of others, and self-respect will haunt you.
  2. Think and act as undeserving, and you’ll have to get by with little and less.
  3. Think and act desperate or fearful, and you’ll be taken advantage of.
  4. Think and act dignified, and you’ll earn respect.
  5. Think and act feminist, and you’ll attract a man temporarily or perhaps a wuss permanently.
  6. Men DO make passes at lasses who wear glasses. Glasses distract from his looking deep in your eyes while you do that to him first.
  7. Think and act like a good Christian, and you’ll develop a servant’s heart and vice versa.
  8. Think and act like a lady, and you’ll be treated as one. (You may, however, have to teach others what being a lady means and how a man should treat her. Your ladylike actions will guide you in what others should do.)
  9. Think and act like a virgin even if you’re not, and you’ll find that men will compete to make themselves worthy of you.
  10. Think and act lonely, and you’ll doom yourself to stay that way.

36 Comments

Filed under Dear daughter, feminine, Fickle female

36 responses to “2527. Tips for Women — II

  1. anon...

    number 5 is SO TRUE.. but its possible to show a ‘wuss’ how to be stronger indirectly… especially if the guy had original married parents which you have seen
    the problem is, WOMEN try to be TOO DIRECT with men.–it doesn’t work….
    Also, sometimes, when certain women even those who are strong in the arms could have a weaker neck–and when they try to compete with them, they could hurt it—i’ve seen this

  2. 1jarofclay

    Amen! Thank you for the truisms. They all strongly resonate with me. Number 7 especially struck a chord. Many blessings! ❤

    Magnolia

  3. Etu

    Sir Guy, may I ask your advice and the advice of the ladies here? I am going on a first date tomorrow. The guy is driving nine hours to take me on a date. He is a little more conscious about food than I am…as far as organics and sugar and all that. We are going to a local hip soul food-ish place. Would it be okay if I said to him before ordering, ‘would it be okay with you if I got [insert one dish or another]? I’m afraid the mac and cheese might offend him! I don’t know if this is silly to worry about? I don’t want to come off as pandering, and I don’t want to pander. But I just wonder how to deal….

    Your Highness Etu,

    Not sure I understand your dilemma, but here goes.

    If you ask and he recommends, you should order that or ask him to order for you.

    If you want mac and cheese, be yourself. Don’t ask, just order what you like. If it doesn’t bother him, then ask about his preference for whatever he likes. Let him talk about his likes and you listen.

    If it bothers him, red flag. Find it out now, because he will be worse the next time if there is a next time. It’s a redder flag is he accuses because he has driven nine hours only to find you not as health or whatever conscious as he.

    Don’t feel guilty either about the nine hours; he knew what he was doing and it was worth it to him. His risk, not yours. You were nice enough to let him date you.

    Guy

    • Etu

      Thank you Sir Guy (and Shermy below!) for the good advice. I am here to report the date was lovely. He brought me flowers! I ordered what I wanted, he got what he wanted and ate the evil bread and sugar, and he even ordered a dessert to share. So maybe his not keeping sugar in the house is the rule and there are exceptions. These days I don’t feel like I owe a date something for driving a long way, and boy do the shysters show their colors faster. But this was a serious Christian man, honest constitutional conservative, farmer, strives to live off the grid. Practices what he preaches, gentle. I probably would have married him if he’d asked me. However, there is the matter of my student loan debt. I disclosed all this to him up front before we met and thought it would be a dealbreaker as his goal is to expand his farm, live on one income, no debt. But he said he thought there was enough common ground to meet. He worked to pay all his student loans off in just a few years right out of college. Last night I gave him the numbers about my living expenses, savings, income, etc, and he jotted it all down on a napkin and told me if I apply all my savings to the loans I could pay them off in a matter of months even if I had to cut back. (I’m not sure about that..maybe months as in a couple years.) He asked me if I would be willing to use all my savings for the loans. I said yes, if I knew I was getting married and becoming part of a family. So maybe that’s the wrong answer? Maybe I don’t like the tough love and acknowledging he is right and these loans might be part of the reason why I am not married. This guy does not make a lot now (about $13k a year) and emphasized to me very gently that someone with debt like I have brought into a marriage would decimate what he’s worked toward in and on the farm for 15 years. He said not paying off the debt would be a dealbreaker. I have his same aspirations but unfortunately am not ‘living’ it. We took a nice drive after dinner and wrapped it up. Haven’t heard from him but assume he’s still en route. Just thought I’d overshare to siphon any more advice!

  4. Shermy

    I agree with Sir Guy here, be who you are and order what you like, and allow him to bear the risk of his time for the date. Good luck!

  5. Shermy

    Etu, congrats on a great date! Sir Guy, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think sharing such personal financial information on a first date raises a red flag for me and also may be on the side of oversharing. To me, these kinds of conversations should be saved for actual relationships, not in the getting to know you phase. That being said, He doesn’t sound like he’s in a position to provide for a family and may be looking for someone who is an “equal” financial contributor. My 2 cents…

    • Etu

      Hello Shermy, and thanks for the advice! Honestly it’s pins and needles talking about my debt and a load of TMI…but I feel like if I don’t put it out there I’m hiding it. It is usually a case of darned if you do and darned if you don’t, though. I don’t want to be or come off like a gold digger looking for a bailout. This guy is definitely not looking for an equal financial contributor…strives for one-income household being his income. He asked if I wanted to be a stay at home wife/mother. I said yes…that is what I aspire to. Then he said getting rid of the debt is essential to that. When he said “even if I am not in your future/another guy/economic times we’re in you don’t want to be stuck with debt.” Always uneasy when a guy says in whatever context, “even if I’m not in your future.” He called a few minutes ago to say he got back. I feel slightly down about it thinking the kind of guy I want does better than I do- and I hope that’s not false modesty. You reap what you sow. I wish I had never gone to college and don’t recommend it to females.

      • Cinnamon

        Etu,

        I agree with Shermy – TMI on the debt (otherwise it sounds like a great date).

        As Sir Guy has explained, “honesty” does not mean sharing all information – what it means is not being intentionally misleading. If asked, hint around the debt (most college graduates have debt – it’s nothing to be ashamed of) and that you are busy paying it off but be vague about numbers then change the subject. Keep it lighthearted. If he pushes for more information, as Sir Guy said to you earlier, “Red flag.”

        Make plans to pay off the debt and put those plans into action. Get Dave Ramsey Money Makeover if you need help in doing this. By the time you are toward the end of a long courtship with Mr Goodenough most if not all of that debt will be gone.

        When you disclose this much detail so early on you are putting yourself in the role of the seller. Let him figure you out, including your finances, over a very long period of time during which, if he plays his cards right, he gets to know you. Keep reviewing the articles in the CONTENT section and pay attention to any that pertain to dating.

        • Etu

          Cinnamon, thank you! If both of you ladies feel this way instinctually then you must be on to something.

      • Meow Meow

        Another agree with Shermy and Cinnamon. Its a bit too personal when things haven’t even gotten personal! Don’t worry you are no gold digger. You are aware of your problems and as long as you are not adding to them and you are doing your best to handle them that is all that can be expected. There are a lot of people (not just women) in your boat. After all did not your date say that he worked to pay off his student loans after school? So he once had them too….so sorry you wish you had never gone to college and don’t recommend it to females. I did very much enjoy my college experience and found it incredibly eye opening and useful. But those were different times, pre-Recession, when it was far easier to find good work to pay off loans. (And there are some jobs where a college degree is absolutely necessary!)

  6. Shermy

    Etu, I totally agree with Cinnamon on NOT putting yourself in the role of seller and her subsequent comments. Also, gold diggers are fairly obvious. Just because you expect a man to be a provider does NOT mean you are looking for a bailout or to clean him out and leave him with nothing. I understand that may be a real fear for men of means, especially considering divorce settlements these days, but let a man problem solve his way through that by getting to know your character over time.

    • Etu

      Thank you Shermy! He still wants to talk and just asked me how many pairs of shoes I own. I did pick “shopping” as a hobby/interest on my profile. I generally have a nothing over $10 rule but I’m thinking I might not even respond. I just feel like I’m explaining myself to someone who’s probably got his mind made up. He won’t like my # of shoes anyway even if 75 percent of them are from Goodwill.

      • Miss Gina

        Dear Lady Etu,

        I agree it was too early to share personal details, but as Sir Guy says, “Recovery is everything.” In other words, you can still recover from nearly any mistake with a man. So…about the shoes, you might try to put him off with a joke, like “Why do you ask…are you short a pair or two?” Or the serious route, “I appreciate your interest in whether I have enough to wear, but I can manage quite well with what I have.” He seems well-intentioned and conscientious, but in typical man style, very much on a mission to find a wife who fits his “list,” which may or may not be realistic. I will just put this out there, and Sir Guy and others may wish to comment, but I would have a little fun with his prying and turn it to my advantage. Of course he doesn’t see it as prying…for him it is checking off boxes on a list. Nothing wrong with that as far as his intentions, but that leaves him as the buyer and also leaves things a bit emotionless and unromantic. Remember Sir Guy says we need to teach a man to romance and court us. Right now it sounds like he may be assuming he is good enough for you. So keep things fun and lighthearted, gently and with humor let him *slowly* earn the knowledge that you fit the bill *while* he sells himself to you. It helps me in challenging situations to come up with some generic scripts ahead of time and actually practice them. Words that will fit a variety of situations might include, “Why do you ask?” “(Sigh) We were just slipping into a little bit of fun there, weren’t we?” “I’m not sure that’s anyone’s business at this point.” “This is the kind of thing that I am more than willing to discuss with the right person at the right time.” You don’t want to give him the idea that he wouldn’t like your answer, but you do definitely want to give him the idea that he’s overstepping by prying so much so soon. You can also give him a “skeptical teacher” look with one raised eyebrow and say nothing. Don’t worry that you are doing something differently from before. No need to explain. He’ll figure it out. Just keep everything lighthearted and pleasant, have fun, smile a lot, be funny, be sweet, use a pleasant or playful tone of voice. *But* don’t let him set the underlying agenda (fine to let him plan dates and such) or pry into your business. (A hand of steel inside a velvet glove.) Not a bad idea to work on the debt, but no need to inform him of that until much later. Be very careful if over time you continually feel bad about yourself after being around him. I wouldn’t worry about it at this point, though.

        Your Highness Miss Gina,
        These are great ideas. “It helps me in challenging situations to come up with some generic scripts ahead of time and actually practice them. Words that will fit a variety of situations might include, “Why do you ask?” “(Sigh) We were just slipping into a little bit of fun there, weren’t we?” “I’m not sure that’s anyone’s business at this point.” “This is the kind of thing that I am more than willing to discuss with the right person at the right time.” You don’t want to give him the idea that he wouldn’t like your answer, but you do definitely want to give him the idea that he’s overstepping by prying so much so soon. You can also give him a “skeptical teacher” look with one raised eyebrow and say nothing. Don’t worry that you are doing something differently from before. No need to explain. He’ll figure it out. Just keep everything lighthearted and pleasant, have fun, smile a lot, be funny, be sweet, use a pleasant or playful tone of voice.” Thank you on behalf of the ladies.
        Guy

        • Shermy

          Wonderful comments Miss Gina!

        • Meow Meow

          Wow Miss Gina. These are great tips I hope to pass on when my lady friends and I coffee klatsch. And Etu—If he’s making you a little uncomfy with all these financial questions, listen to your true feelings. They are there for a reason, if you are still interested in this guy I’d back way off and wait to see if he gives the analyzing/judgemental behavior a rest. You can even tell him he’s coming off a bit heavy-handed and things should be fun and playful right now! (No jumping through hoops!)

        • Miss Gina

          Dear Sir Guy,

          😀

  7. Cote

    My mother would sometimes ask me if me and my boyfriend (of 2yrs) are discussing any plans in the near future (aka getting married). Well the short answer is no. It’s not as if I don’t intend to get married, but I feel that there’s no need for me to bring up the topic because my boyfriend:

    -hasn’t given me any reasons to doubt his intentions, he did tell me he wants to have a family eventually
    -he’s almost acting like a husband already which feels like marriage is only a matter of when and not if

    And there’s no way for my mom to believe that. She wants verbal confirmation. She wants me to ask where the relationship is going. Altho I know she has good intentions, i just know that her “methods” are not going to work.

    Ladies – any tips on how to deal with my mom?

    • gonemaverick

      Cote, your mom sounds like mine! #smiling. I l love her though. My response to her is that my boyfriend proves to me everday through his ACTIONS what his intentions are.

      Etu, I agree with the other ladies. It was too much information to share on a first date. You don’t owe him anything in these EARLY stages. Sir Guy’s advice is: Don’t Complain. Dont Explain. Don’t Question. Just state clearly what you will OR won’t do and don’t feel guilty if he is offended by anything you do OR don’t do. Cardinal rule: STOP explaining yourself.

      I’ve been with my boyfriend for about 4 years and only last week did we discuss debt. I have debt and he doesn’t. But his words to me were, “any responsible husband knows that he takes on his wive’s debt when they get married.” He added, “your debt is my debt and if you decide to no longer work, your debt becomes my responsibility.” I know that this response came about because we’ve known each other for a while and he’s pretty much made up his mind about whether or not he will marry me. I suggest re-reading the Sex Differences and the Hard To Get series.

      All the best.

      • Shermy

        ” Sir Guy’s advice is: Don’t Complain. Don’t Explain. Don’t Question. Just state clearly what you will OR won’t do and don’t feel guilty if he is offended by anything you do OR don’t do. Cardinal rule: STOP explaining yourself.”

        Absolutely the best rules to follow. They will take you far!!!!!! Thanks for the reiteration gonemaverick!

  8. Etu

    Just a little update on the situation with the farmer for Sir Guy and any of you sweet ladies who have been so generous with your good advice: after first date he continued to call and e-mail. I never really answered the ‘how many shoes’ question he had although he ended up answering it himself for himself. I still don’t feel like I can put all my hopes and dreams on this and so have even missed a few of his calls whereas in times past if I missed a guy’s call I panicked. Last night he got me on the third try. He took down my dad’s name and number and is supposed to call him tonight. We are planning a visit in two weeks with the parents. He asked would I be willing to visit him in his state in the next month. I said if I thought things were progressing (toward marriage) then yes. I’m interested to see how this all goes. Thanks everyone for sticking by me!

    • gonemaverick

      happy for you Etu but please DO take your time. put emotions and infatuation aside and THINK with your mind.

      • Meow Meow

        I second gonemaverick—take YOUR own time and don’t be rushed into anything. Listen to your true feelings and do take red flags seriously. No one is perfect its true, but simply be aware of anything that makes you feel upset.

        I know this might sound funny, but its also good to notice how a man acts when he is angry….when he is happy….when he is sad…..BEFORE you marry him. Dates in person over a period of time, doing various fun things and seeing how he deals with things that come up, are the best way to gage that. Hopefully, you’ll see both his best and worst qualities reveal themselves before you are fully committed!

    • Miss Gina

      Dear Lady Etu,

      I appreciate the courting model, as well as appropriate kinds of dating. There is a version of courting that can go very quickly.

      Forgive me if I’m reading into this, but I would just put this out there that even a man who practices purity before marriage can be pushy about sex. I mean this in the sense that a man, knowing he won’t get sex before marriage, wants to close the deal quickly on an engagement.

      Aside from that aspect, it is in the male nature to want to go on the hunt, find the prize (wife) as quickly and efficiently as possible, and move on to the next enterprise.

      What could possibly happen, might be, that the man makes his approach, makes his decision, closes the deal (because we ladies like to be agreeable), gets to the altar…and he has never learned to take his lady’s feelings or preferences into account.

      With the visits to parents, etc., it sounds like your gentleman friend might be on this fast track to the altar.

      As Sir Guy explains, a man’s heart is most quickly trained before marriage. If he thinks he might lose what he wants, he could be very open to substantial and fast change. If a marriage happens before the lady even knows what he might need to change, there is a large opportunity lost.

      Now, I know that a man who knows what he wants can put a lot of pressure on a sweet and agreeable lady and even make her feel guilty for putting him off. This would be a huge red flag!

      The one putting on a lot of pressure is one who would bulldoze a lady’s gentle feelings in a marriage. All is not lost, for he can be trained, with time and a strong backbone. One with a more cautious approach probably needs less training. This is all the more reason for giving things a bit of time, for he needs to learn how very much he wants her, and she needs to learn whether he is worthy of her.

      It is impossible to know over the internet whether any of this has any bearing on your particular situation. I just wanted to share some thoughts in case they might relate in some way.

      Wishing you fun and discernment in your upcoming visits with this gentleman of interest.

    • A.GuyMaligned

      Your Highness Etu,

      You’re blessed to receive such great counsel and advice from so many bright women. They do better than I. However, I think
      I have a suggestion that may slow the guy down and provide unexpected info to you. It reverses the usual protocol that women use, but I prefer it in all cases and not just yours.

      Forget commitment as a development step. It is only an exchange of words, and men are not all that reliable with words. So, commitment quite often is little more than a one-way street with a permanent DROP instead of STOP at the end.

      Make your decision now. Don’t even mention commitment until he does and even then don’t accept it first time or two. Use charm and polish to put it off until you see his actions that confirm to you that he is devoted to you.

      Multiple 9-hour trips are good actions, and so are gifts, time just leaning on your shoulder for no reason other than to be with you, flowers, candy, no mention or unwilling to bring up the subject of sex, holding your hand while walking, dressing up neat just for you, wants to take you to his church, knows when and how to compliment without sycophancy, willing to spend time just chatting with your mom and dad or siblings independently, fixes or services your car, gives a detailed tour of his farm, putting you up at his home with no expectations for you to be available in bed or he provides two rooms if on the road … IOW,he finds multiple way to please you for the specific reason of pleasing you and taking all precautions to not offend or lose you. His actions and not his words give the impression that he already ‘owns’ you. He takes you for granted because in his mind his actions earn that much of a reward, so for the one case, don’t take offense thinking you are taken for granted.

      Don’t expect to hear, and don’t pressure him to say, I love you. Instead of those words, look to see that he thinks you very likeable and willing to be loyal to him, and that you find him very likeable and see him as loyal and hopefully faithful to you.

      Also, you be shy of using those 3 words. It’s okay for you to use them, but don’t expect reciprocity. He’s a farmer, chary with words, and I expect embarrassed if he ever says them.

      If he addresses kids, say you want to have at least six, if for no other reason than to get his response. If you insist on less, better not say six. But read my article (#2500) on preference for big family as beneficial for mother.

      Just go along being yourself and don’t interrupt his process of courting you. Let him do all the initiating while you smile big and never complain, and let his devotion develop by doing things to please you. Also, if he starts talking marriage, you listen, and let him walk himself through the process of taking you all to the altar. But you pick up the marriage planning.

      Guy

      • Etu

        Thank you, Sir Guy, and also thanks to your bevy of brilliant ladies. This site is my compass. A little background on my new friend: he grew up Mennonite and came away from it after college. He is very seriously conservative. A patriot. Sir Guy I think you could get behind him on his love and devotion to our founding principles. We agreed on some fundamentals from the start: no TV in the house and no birth control pills. I will tell you deep down I have that I’m not good enough feeling or like somehow I’m faking…he’s walking the talk. I’ve got this student loan debt. I feel myself wanting to impress him but I can turn the corner on that by asking him questions. The people I have confided in here say the same thing about the debt…it’s none of his business and way too soon to talk about. I say like I’ve said here- I agree. However I was afraid to be too coy on that subject because of how candid he was regarding his goal to live debt free…single income family etc. I have a friend who lives in his same state and she said, well use your savings to pay what you can and then work work work the rest of it off. I think that’s a good idea. I am not averse to working outside home so long as I don’t have kids. I’m in a place with this debt though where it’s hard. He makes $13,000.00 a year right now, hopes to expand the farm but lives very frugally of course! I just took a job that pays $52k a year (Lord willing I get to keep it)…I am wanting to get rid of this debt asap but also get married…when it’s right.

        Your Highness Etu,
        Congratulations, darling. It seems you have your hand on the switch that rules your world. By that I mean you know the what, why, and how of your future. Best of love, luck, and problem-free smoothness in making it happen.
        Guy

        • Etu

          Thank you, Sir Guy! It truly warms my heart and gives me confidence to get that commendation from you!

        • Etu

          Yet another update on the farmer guy. It is officially off as of last night. In our very early correspondence he gave me a list of his doctrinal beliefs and asked if any were dealbreakers. I disagreed with one in particular and told him my view (which he used to have), but told him that a difference there was not a deal breaker for me. He called my dad last week and was planning a second visit this weekend. In the meantime he sent me some you tube debates and sermons from someone arguing ‘his’ position. I watched, and when he brought it up last night, I asked him the usual questions that go back and forth when people debate this particular doctrinal difference. His tone changed. He used the hateful, condescending “you’re an idiot” tone I’d heard slip out before, to tell me I was misunderstanding/not reading the verse for what it clearly said/using human logic. At the beginning of this conversation I reminded this difference was not a dealbreaker for me. After the questions he said, “I know you said this wasn’t a deal breaker for you; well, it is for me.” I said, “Then we need to part ways right now, because my mind is not changing on this.” We got off amicably, but he did say before hanging up, something like, “I should have told you earlier,” then went on to say, “coming to visit you was not a waste of time, etc.” He knew from the start what I believed; maybe he thought he would change my mind. He’s almost 37 and commented that nothing with a girl had ever gone past 2 months. I guess he’s looking for his idea of perfection. I guess I’ll go back to buying shoes for retail and dying my hair pink. I’m let down but on the macro, feel like I’ve dodged a bullet. Thanks, everyone!

          • Shermy

            You totally dodged a bullet! When a man tries to convince you to change your values, he no longer respects you.

            • Etu

              Thank you, Shermy! That tone of voice from the start worried me. Of course I never dreamed he’d use it with me. LOL.

              • Shermy

                LOL, I know we never do, until they DO! A man has ONE chance to make a bad impression during the courtship phase, because if they do it once, they’ll do it AGAIN.

          • Miss Gina

            You most definitely did, Lady Etu.

            I have to say that sending the doctrinal thing so early appears to have been a red flag. The Bible itself forbids us to be argumentative about such things. Of course there are the basic teachings of the church that we should agree on about salvation, but beyond that personal relationship with Christ, being equally yoked certainly would not require lockstep agreement beyond that.

            Also, other things would come before doctrine in making a good marriage, as in living out the fruits of the Spirit, the Christian graces, and having the mind of Christ.

            And of course, you wouldn’t want someone who talks that way to anyone, let alone yourself. You are right that it was also a red flag.

          • Meow Meow

            I think you did indeed dodge a bullet. The impersonality of the conversation so early on (when i think one would be looking for personal connections/interests ) combined with the whirlwind speed with which the two of you were talking about marriage came across a bit worrisome. I know you were (sort of) having a long distance relationship but there is nothing like face-to-face time in getting to know a person. Also, please don’t be hard on yourself about student loan debt, there are many people in your position and up until the recession and even after, staying in college and taking on even more debt was touted by TV, magazines, parents who grew up in better times etc. as a risk worth taking…. i hope you meet someone who is able to be both fun and supportive. I know he is out there for you!

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