2651. Strategy for Courtship — 04: Expectations 1-10


Women love to share their love of someone. Many intuitively find it difficult not to do so. OTOH, men don’t appreciate unearned gifts. Without his having earned whatever she gives—e.g., love or other signs of her appreciation of him—it will at least be under appreciated and may be meaningless to him. If he doesn’t have to earn her, he doesn’t invest himself and match his interests up with hers. It’s the definition of he’s not worthy of her.

By her providing unearned gifts, she discourages his investing of himself in their mutual concerns. Consequently, he may stay awhile, but he sees no reason to stick around. By giving away her appreciation, love, or sex in fear that she will lose him, she plants the seeds and soon harvests the crop of his dumping or later abandoning her.

  1. Men in courtship are much the same as in marriage; they expect to satisfy themselves with themselves and their life. He dates and courts an attractive and likeable woman who satisfies and adds to his satisfaction with life today. Any promise he foresees living together with her adds to the potential of satisfying him today and not in the future that she so eagerly envisions. IOW, he’s mostly concerned with his present more than his future life.
  2. In spite of her belief that she’s in charge with her love and personal likeability, success does not begin until he becomes devoted to her. His devotion arises out of his investment of time and effort to please her, because she’s so likeable to be around as woman or sex target.
  3. His conversion from liking her to devotion to her triggers his conversion from her as sex target to her as more important than sex with her.
  4. It’s how they interact cooperatively that makes courtship move onward. However, a man is too independent and competitive to value cooperation and mutual interaction as the main keys to success as a couple. So, if progress is in the air, she probably put it there.
  5. A man can’t love well, if he’s not respected and admired. Success follows the gal who respects and admires a man as the main pathway to earning his love. Showing her devotion is not the same thing. Always trying to please him shows up in his eyes as she needs him, which is not the compliment she intends. He loses respect because she acts desperate, too fearful of losing him.
  6. Women can and like to show their love suddenly and easily, but men can’t, don’t, or won’t. Her best tactic is to make him earn her love, and not give it so freely that he figures he already has her under his dominance.
  7. Until his love fully develops much later, the early match up with her love of him is his respect she has earned and his admiration of qualities that appear as her virtues. Combined with holding his interest high, his respect and admiration confirm or help develop his devotion to her.
  8. It begins in dating and continues in courtship. He earns her and not the reverse. When a man sees that a woman has totally invested herself in him, he has it made so to speak, and he can quit or ease off trying. The challenge is reduced or gone. Fewer manly actions mean less devotion, and it has to do less with her than with his nature to be efficient and not waste effort.
  9. Mutual likeability, mutual respect, and mutual loyalty convince a man to neutralize his inborn nature to conquer others. She either wins his loyalty to her exclusively, or his conquering nature remains tied to finding sex elsewhere.
  10. Men respect those who earn their respect. Until they conquer each female, they highly value her sexual assets more than her. So, the more protective of her assets and delay of his conquest, the more easily and the more of a man’s respect she earns.

A man’s devotion to a woman is the hallmark of impending success in courtship. More to follow.

17 Comments

Filed under courtship, Dear daughter, How she wins, sex differences

17 responses to “2651. Strategy for Courtship — 04: Expectations 1-10

  1. Men are never more handsome when giving ten points on how a woman can be successful in courtship.

  2. 1jarofclay

    Hello Sir Guy,

    I have a question unrelated to this post but couldn’t find any posts under the title “compliments”. I know you’ve said before that a man complimenting a woman isn’t necessarily that he’s hitting on her. Sometimes a compliment is just that.

    You always encourage us to do “pretty time” in the morning before we go out of the house and you’re right. It has a very positive psychological effect on us. We do it for us first and foremost, and if other people notice and comment (they will), then that’s the icing on the cake.

    On Valentine’s Day I was especially careful about my appearance. Wore red –my favorite color which gets a lot of attention–, took extra care of makeup, hair, nails, etc. Male colleagues noticed for sure.

    Melina Dean would say on her blog “The Seductive Woman” that to us looking beautiful is a duty to the world, but is also our pleasure. Renee Wade from “The Feminine Woman” says that every feminine woman wants and needs her beauty and radiance to be acknowledged by those around her.

    That day, one of my male colleagues said to me: “You look very pretty today.” My question is, does complimenting a woman also meet a need in men? I think with them it’s the pursuit and conquering what’s important, but wanted your thoughts on the matter.

    Compliments in the workplace are rare due to sexual harassment laws, so I was a little surprised that he even said what he said. We’re teachers. I had to go to his classroom to talk to a boy who needed to turn in some paper. Only after another student said I looked nice did the teacher compliment me.

    I was just curious about the male psychology in this type of scenario.

    Thank you,
    Magnolia

    Your Highness Magnolia,

    It was a nice compliment, His phrasing tells me it was honest and he felt comfortable to break custom after a student passed a compliment. The student shaped the immediate environment with courteous innocence, and teacher leaned toward his own version of courtesy.

    The teacher would have chosen different phrasing, if he was hitting on you or the student had been quiet.

    You’re right, it’s a social problem. Few compliments are passed. Political correctness and past legal scares threaten everyone. Harassment laws and propagandized women cause women to side with political advantage that stamps out the natural interaction of men and women.

    Guy

    • Anon...

      IMO…. the more feminine women look.. the stronger MEN are or could be…and why i think its really great for young ladies to start to wear dresses/skirts again….(ALTHOUGH i think its ok for older women to wear pants)—-i got chewed out by an 89 yo woman not wanting to try to put on pantyhose.. 🙂

      • Meow Meow

        I agree Anon and I compliment younger ladies and encourage them to keep wearing dresses/skirts when I see a girl wearing a really nice classy one. If you take time to look you can find some great dresses but here too sometimes girls pick something too revealing when less would be more!

        • Femme

          Just to say that until a few months ago, my regular uniform was black skinny jeans with a brightly coloured top. I would throw in a cardi or a scarf plus I would regularly wear make up and jewellery.
          My legs are one part of my body that I have never felt unhappy with, so I figured displaying them would be a good idea.
          I felt good but hardly ever received compliments.
          After starting work at an office I decided to look more “officey” and purchased a few plain A line skirts in different colours so that they are easy to coordinate with my existing clothes.
          The outcome? If I ever receive compliments, it’s on the days I wear a skirt.
          People will say “you look nice” when all I’ve done is don a plain calf length skirt.
          Not that I am complaining, it’s just quite funny.
          Also, as a side effect, I’ve noticed that when I’m not in pants, I feel more feminine and a bit restricted in the sense that I have to watch how I’m sitting (not anything goes with a skirt). 🙂

  3. Sunset Highway

    We truly appreciate your latest courtship post. After reading so much on marriage, I’m particularly excited to read about courtship.

    I just wanted to add a little anecdote that may reinforce this post. I am in daily contact with three male coworkers who all have girlfriends. However, only ONE of the men are actually engaged to the “girlfriend”. All of these men have been dating their women for long-ish periods of time. 1 for more than 9 years. The other, for about 3 years, and the last, for about 1.5 years.

    The ironic thing is that the one who has been dating the girl for 1.5 years is the one is engaged. Even more ironic is that the other two (the ones in relationships with their girlfriends for 3 years and the other for 9 years) both have been living with their respective girlfriends for a long time. None of these men are “young”, they are all older than 30 years. Now you would think that these two, who are already living with their girlfriends, would be married by now right? Nope. The one who has been dating the girl for 1.5 years was not living with his girlfriend. Apparently she kept some distance and refused to give up her separate apartment (he has his own place too), until serious steps were taken towards marriage. It seems he got impatient and was in a position where he had to propose, specifically because well, #1, he knew she was the “one”, and #2, she made it so that he actually had to invest himself and “take her out” on formal dates, not just live together like roommates. Now that he has proposed (and they are engaged), she finally decided to move in with him. She already has the ring and they made a formal announcement. If it were me, I would hold off on living together until I walked down that aisle, because I tend to go overboard with taking every single precaution available.

    Even slightly more ironic? The one who has dated the same girl for 9 years and actually lives with her as well, he is the least invested in terms of committing himself to marriage. You would think, the longer a man is with one woman, the more used to her he is, and the more comfortable it feels, and therefore the more likely he is to stay with her and propose. The one in a relationship for 3 years says he plans on marriage “probably in the future”. It’s strange how none of this feels “logical” to me at all, because logically speaking, the longer I am with one guy, the more likely I am to think “in terms of marriage”. But I guess I will never understand men because I am not one, and even to this day I’m still surprised at how “right” all of your posts prove to be, even at my workplace.

    Even more irony, if you can bear it. I have carefully and quietly observed all interactions between these men and their girlfriends. I come in contact with them quite a lot because they visit during work, come for lunch, etc. Get ready for some nonsensical human behavior. The girl who has been dating her boyfriend for 9 years and living together with him without a proposal on the horizon, is the one who is the most devoted and in love with her boyfriend. Ironic because if it were me, after 9 years of commitment and no proposal, I’d have already dumped him during year 2.

    Your Highness Sunset Highway,

    Good story, thanks.

    You’re a very smart lass. “If it were me, I would hold off on living together until I walked down that aisle….” Also, “I’d have already dumped him during year 2.”

    If you want to guess at whether each couple will stay together, test for the man’s devotion to his woman. It should be greater than hers. That’s the courtship glue, not her devotion to him, which by itself has little holding power. If his devotion is low or fading, he can’t be very satisfied with his current arrangement. And so, he likely looks for a more satisfying life.

    Guy

  4. Femme

    Sir Guy,
    in line with the other responses, I have often wondered about my female co worker. She is in her early 40s and has been living with her boyfriend for 17 years. She works full time so it means they spend very little time together during the week, and he is the one who cooks. She also commutes for an hour on a train each way. During the weekends, she says often travels back to the city centre where we both work to see some of her friends from work or otherwise. Apparently her boyfriend is quite jealous because of that but she refuses to give up her ways because “this is her”. They nearly split up a few times but have stayed together because of the years they have under their belt together. He apparently says “I love you” more than her. When I asked her if she ever wanted to get married and have kids with him, she said “never”. It kind of baffles me. Him loving her more than the other way round is probably the reason why they are still together (at least that is what I think after reading your post) but what baffles me is why she hasn’t taken advantage of that?
    She attracts a lot of male co workers’ attention (making me quite jealous, I have to admit) even though she isn’t the youngest or prettiest and visibly overweight. She has plenty of male (as well as female) friends who take her out to lunch all the time. One in particular she is very close to. He has a girlfriend apparently but when I see them together, something about the way they look at each other makes me feel uneasy.
    Since I’m quite rusty both in the modern office ways and dating, I’m quite confused as to how to behave myself.
    It would be lovely to be as friendly as her but at the same time I’m not sure about the whole male friends cohorts.

    • Sunset Highway

      I’m curious to know some more information in terms of their relationship, it’s 100% none of my business, but it would help to iron out the confusion you have in your head about their dynamic. While reading your comment I could have skipped something, but has he actually ever proposed marriage to this woman you speak of?

      This is what I’m really curious about. A man can “act devoted” all he wants, but those genuinely devoted usually propose and it doesn’t take them long to figure out if the woman “is the one”. If he has proposed and she has asked for “more time”, then it’s a different story. If she hasn’t gotten a proposal from him, she may just say “Oh I can never imagine kids and marriage with him”, as a defense mechanism. It’s like when you can’t have something, you trick yourself into thinking you never even wanted it, that you’re above the exact thing you want. “Oh, I’m too good for him.”. Inside she may be pining for a proposal. It doesn’t matter if you asked her if she “wanted to get married and have kids”. I mean, does she plan on being the one to “propose marriage”? I doubt it, unless she’s in some feminist super cult. Her boyfriend is the one who has the ability to give her the choice for marriage in the first place, it’s not her choice until he asks.

      Him “loving her more” is hard to prove. He can get jealous of her going out and him staying home, but that doesn’t prove he is more devoted, it just means she’s more outgoing than him and he may resent her social dominance. Him cooking also may just mean he enjoys cooking, period. Lots of men enjoy it nowadays, since gender roles have slowly reversed over the past 50 years.

      He apparently says “I love you” more than her. Yes but again, those are just words. You can’t take this to court as hard evidence. It would be called “hearsay”. Someone said it at some point and time, but words evaporate into thin air.

      Also, it is much easier for a woman to attract attention from other men besides her boyfriend when they perceive she is already with another man. This can be confusing. One part of the male mind does not like to know the woman they have a crush on is being conquered by another man. But the other half off of man’s brain calculates that she is already sexually active with her current boyfriend, so they get physically excited about this. It means she will be sexually active with him too. It signals she is “sexually easy”. Men contradict themselves this way. The girl with a boyfriend who is sexually active is attractive to the opposite sex simply by ‘being in a relationship’. At the same time men like chaste single women.

      For example, when I was ‘in relationships/courtships’ with another man, I would get asked out so many more times by different men. When I am single, it’s almost as if I repel men by default. Not because I am physically grotesque, but just by virtue of being single, it’s almost like I send out a signal to the world that I want to stay single, at least to other me. It doesn’t mean being single means you’re unwanted. It just means other men may perceive you as ‘too picky’, has ‘too many standards’, and the kind of girl who would be hard to sleep with.

      • Femme

        She doesn’t talk much about him except in the context of “relationships are hard work”. I don’t know if he ever proposed to her, likewise if she ever wanted children. When I said I was extremely sad because of the breakup of my marriage (and consequently family) and feel like I will be on my own for the rest of my life, she said “at least you’ve got children. I can’t say the same about myself”. But on another occasion, she mentioned she never wanted kids. So I don’t know. She seems to be putting most of her energy into her work and friends.

    • Meow Meow

      Again this is why I’ll always reiterate that not every woman, and especially if they are older, even wants to be married, and is fine with shacking up at best or simply dating multiple gentlemen while keeping their own place. I see it all the time.

      Now granted I am usually speaking about the ladies in their 50’s–60’s I know that are already divorced or widowed and have done “The Family Thing”. Sometimes, they see marriage both as a blessing but also the hard work that it can be (and especially is for the woman, with all the relationship maintenance of marriage) and they’re done with that. Due to being available for grown/grand kids, financial and even health issues that they want to keep private they may not want to enter any more legally binding arrangements. And so they date or just live together with their boyfriend—usually at their choice.

      That does not seem to be true of your co-worker who is much younger. It does not really sound like she is secretly pining for him to propose but simply has a more masculine temperament/strong sex drive and doesn’t see this arrangement as permanent—almost like he’s a a live-in FWB until someone else comes along. To be together 17 years means she’s been like this for some time and has thought about it a lot! I think women like her are less common, but they are out there and passive men who want to be taken care of find them. It would be wise not to marry such a man. Kids by this point are going to be out of the question soon, anyways. Sounds complicated.

  5. Femme

    I think in the olden days, when there was much less freedom for women, it was also much less complicated. A woman tried to catch the best guy for a husband, usually from a young age, and after marriage she was pretty much stuck in her situation, which probably meant she made the best of it. These days, we are not only expected to do all the relationship maintenance, but to be breadwinners, as well. Sometimes even the main ones. So it’s not surprising that we sometimes have had enough. Women prefer to go to work as at least it brings money, which gives them independence. Housework and homemaking is hugely underappreciated and looked down on.
    Given how many men out there are narcissistic/sociopaths/simply immature these days, the risk is really high.
    If a woman is in her 40s or 50s and single, the process of screening for good guys can take ages of the time that she doesn’t have.
    That’s actually the situation I’m in now.
    When I think about all the trouble of dating in addition to caring for 2 young kids, myself, and working, it seems like a daunting task. It doesn’t stop me from wanting to find the right partner because I think a woman’s heart will always want and try to connect…But it seems easier to just resign myself to being on my own.
    The FWB situation is definitely NOT my thing but I can understand women who get into it, especially after they’ve already raised a family.
    As for the co worker, you raised an interesting subject, Lady Meow Meow.
    It seems to me that her and her boyfriend have somehow swapped roles in their relationship.He is the one who cooks, works closer to home, stays in during the weekends and would like to spend more time with her. She, on the other hand, seems to value independence more.
    Yes, she seems to be the dominant one.
    Which brings me to a topic that I would like to know Sir Guy’s opinion on very much.
    Some time ago, in my quest to find out who I am, I found this energy profiling system put together by Carol Tuttle. She called it “Dressing Your Truth”. The ideas aren’t hers, apparently, but she put them into a system that basically says there are 4 major ways in which people use their life force (or energy). Everybody has all 4 but in different proportions, and we always lead with just 1. Hence she divides people into 4 main Types that correspond to the main seasons. So Type 1 people are like spring, with their energy moving upwards and outwards. They are light, carefree, have plenty of ideas (aka creative), very outgoing and sociable. Type 2 people are like summer, detail oriented, meticulous, like comfort, sensitive, caring and relate to the world emotionally. Then there is Type 3, and those people are task and goal oriented. They are doers, they make things happen, adjusting things as they go along. Sometimes perceived as too loud, too domineering and pushy. Type 4 is the last in the cycle. These people are like winter, with the energy being conserved deeply inside the body. They are thinkers, introverted, self motivated, still and reflective. Also, very bold in expression and display black and white thinking. They are straightforward and to the point and can be perceived as perfectionistic, stuck up and critical. They relate to the world intellectually.
    The dominant type (and we all contain all 4, but 1 always leads) manifests itself on the outside, namely in the person’s behaviour, the way they speak, walk, talk, and also in their facial features.
    Now ANYBODY (man or woman) can lead with any type.
    Out of those, Type 2 women would be considered the most feminine in the “old paradigm”. Long flowing hair, they suit skirts, pretty jewellery, they are also sensitive, emotional and meek. Type 2 men with the same internal qualities would be considered more feminised and therefore not “alpha”. Type 1 men can get across as lightheaded, irresponsible and immature, no matter their chronological age. Type 3 and 4 women would be considered the most “masculine” because they very often suit short hair and straight lines and substantial jewellery. Type 3 and 4 MEN on the other hand, could be considered the most “manly”.
    Now I’m wondering if this woman is a genius or something else?
    In the beginning I was very enthusiastic, until I noticed I can’t really diagnose myself.
    But one of my friends jumped on the wagon extremely happy that, in her own words, “now we don’t have to divide the world into men and women, we can divide them into energetic TYPES!”.
    To her, it was very liberating.
    Now, I don’t know how all this fits into what Sir Guy teaches on this blog.
    He says that all women and men are born a certain way and any influence comes after that.
    Carol, on the other hand, says we are born with a certain energetic expression which in many cases would be considered “feminine” for men and “masculine” for women…She is a type 3 and, true to form, she created this successful company, in addition to raising 5 kids. Her husband is a type 2 and we only see him when he features in one of her videos.
    Going back to my co-worker and her boyfriend, I haven’t seen him in person.
    But she seems to be the dominant type 3 woman, who makes things happen and doesn’t go too much detail. She is interested in results.
    He, on the other hand, sounds like a dominant type 2 man. My ex husband is the same type, btw.
    They like comfort, both in the house and in clothing, and are detail oriented, meaning they can ask maddeningly huge amounts of questions (in order to be able to plan) when all other people are already at the task, actually DOING things.
    Again, I would be very interested to know Sir Guy’s opinion on this subject because the more I read and observe what is going on around me, the more obscure and complicated things seem.

    Your Highness Femme,
    Systems like “Dressing Your Truth” are always marketable. Astrology anyone? I oppose such systems. They keep interested parties trapped in the same habits that plague a woman’s happiness and a man’s satisfaction.
    Guy

    • Femme I’m aware of this system. It is useful in that it talks about the principles of design – things like texture and movement and weight – that other simplistic systems do not mention. This is enlightening when it comes to eg choosing a coat as art has given us 12 principles of design cf with “Am I one of 4 types?” or even more basic “What price of coat can I afford?” 😉 There are indeed 12 principles of design that highlight what suits Femme and makes her feel good, feel feminine and look beautiful..

      You feel empowered! Then it starts to go into relationships, then health, then energy, then money… Faster and faster it piles on information that becomes more and more dodgy….

      Femme, God has made us infinitely more complicated and individual and wonderful than this system suggests. It’s easy in this world to look for strong and simple rules – follow this and you will get the outcome you want/deserve/crave. Successful living (and indeed dressing 😉 ) come from applying guidelines to your life. This is what Sir Guy gives us regularly. Guidelines for relationships, carefully explained and posed and crafted into easy to understand reading. Guidelines we can think through and discern for our own lives. Sir Guy does this because that is what God does and he is wise to know that a man is never more handsome than when he seeks God’s guidelines for life. Take the time to reason out who Femme is and what guidelines open up the blessings of life and God, rather than ever decreasing circles…

      The WWNH community believe that the guidelines will bless you Femme and that you deserve the blessings that follow 🙂

    • Femme

      Sir Guy;
      thank you.
      You are as always concise and to the point.
      I tend to agree that a system of this kind kind of takes the responsibility for one’s actions and habits away from oneself and puts it somewhere else.
      I wouldn’t be myself if I didn’t have another question: a couple of days ago I realised that we women want to marry alpha males. Yet they are exactly the ones who biologically will be most prone to wanting to spread their seed. Right? Hence, your advice about courtship strategy is so useful.
      My question is this: do the same guidelines apply to males who are less “manly”? This ties in with the typology that I mentioned earlier. Some guys will be more softly and not take initiative as strongly. If a girl has a higher energy level, is it ok for her to initiate things sometimes? Or should she reserve her initiative for her own life only and let the guy follow his own schedule (I mean, sometimes it can be a LOONG wait)?
      And more importantly, if she does have a higher energy level than the man, does it mean they are doomed as a couple?

      Your Highness Femme,
      I regret to inform you, but I know nothing about what you ask.
      Guy

      • Femme

        Sir Guy,
        it sounds like a chiding and I don’t quite know what I said to deserve it.
        What I meant is that even without any theories and systems, people do have different temperaments and that is probably why not everybody is compatible with everybody. So let’s say a man and a woman are dating and he is showing signs of devotion but he is the phlegmatic and slow in his reactions type and she is more outgoing, energetic and enjoying the outdoors for example.
        He may even enjoy her liveliness but prefers to stay indoors with a newspaper or in front of TV while she would rather play tennis and see the world.
        Would they have a chance to be happy together or is that too much of a difference?

        Your Highness Femme,
        No chiding intended. I mentioned earlier that I know nothing of what you speak. Not into energies and have no basis for comparisons or responding. You may be able to find some authority elsewhere who may be familiar with what you seek to know.
        Guy

        • Meow Meow

          If I may try, I get your question is about energy levels, which we all do have. So, this relationship is not the couple that does everything together and has a lot in common. Everyone knows James is a slow-thinking guy who likes long walks, silence and bulldogs. His girlfriend Jane thinks fast, talks fast, loves running and yippy little chihuahuas (I’m exaggerating but i think this is your drift.)

          Can they live a happy life together? Its the age-old opposites attract question about which many a fine movie has been made. I think that its both up to his devotion and her respect, as usual. Can he love/accept/be entertained by her need for social interaction? Can she deal with his occasional need to get out of the house and go fishing? I hazard a guess that its up to the individual couple to decide….except to say that staying together long term will have to ask them both to trust, accept, respect and love the other person for what they bring to the relationship, meaning their deep inner values are shared even if outwardly they would seem very disparate, and that they must compromise at times. If they don’t have that I’m guessing it would just degenerate into squabbling.

          • Femme

            Dear Lady MM,
            yes my question was regarding courtship and the process of deciding whether a man was a Mr Good Enough.
            In the past I wasn’t very good at screening so now I prefer to stick to “twice measured, once cut” as Sir Guy suggests.
            Say that both man and woman find that their deepest values match but they are very different temperamentally. That would mean even if they respected each other’s ways of spending free time, they would be spending a lot of time separately, presumably in the company of other people. That would require a lot of trust on both sides. Question is, would it be worth it. Also, in another scenario, if 2 people enjoy spending a lot of time together, enjoy more or less the same (not all) activities and interests, but their values don’t exactly match – and the woman sticks to her guns – could the guy turn around?
            I think it would be easier to change values than temperament, but not so sure any more.
            Btw the dilemma is not an abstract one, it kind of happened to me in the past.

  6. Femme

    Hi Lady Thankful, I know!
    I started out all excited only to find that I diagnosed myself wrongly. After 3 years of trying to fitting into the Type 4 mold.
    That is, I love the bold colours and they suit me, but the design lines are not good on me.
    There are more people like me out there in the DYT community and apparently even Carol herself has made mistakes – yet she insists that we are all capable of figuring out our Truth on our own.
    Well for me this system doesn’t really work so I switched to another one and it does seem to capture my nature much more accurately.
    And it’s mostly only about clothes and colours.

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