Her Highness Cinnamon asked at post 2029 for more about men playing hardtoget. Not to worry that a woman’s behavior makes men act vague and unavailable. Her likeability doesn’t play as big a part as you might suspect.
But let’s talk about men first. Women come wrapped in two packages, sexually attractive and visually likeable. (That is, she’s uniquely pleasant-to-look-at; she appeals to him uniquely as company; he admires her unique virtues; he finds her uniquely fascinating; she’s pleasantly and uniquely feminine; she uniquely enjoys his presence; she’s uniquely enjoyable to be around, and all without regard for sex appeal). Men value differently and deal separately with those two things. They chase her sexual attractiveness but fall unconsciously into appreciating her visual likeability.
Sexually attractive appeals instantaneously and fades very fast after conquest. It attracts a man but he doesn’t bond and so it doesn’t hold him much beyond conquest. Visually likeable may be enjoyable but it remains relatively minor in his heart and mind before conquest; he’s too interested in other things. Even as a minor focus, however, her visual likeability becomes appealing if and as they associate before conquest.
Consequently, to grasp the reality of it, he’s quite another man after conquest. Before, he views her as sexually appealing, which binds his heart and mind together on one primary mission. After conquest, he views her as visually likeable in pursuit of satisfying himself by associating with her.
His conqueror’s right of ownership of their sexual agenda guarantees frequent and convenient access to sex, romantic love keeps those fires burning, and in the meantime he learns to appreciate the depth of her uniqueness and visual likeability. Provided, of course, that he keeps associating with her.
If she comes up short of visual likeability for his taste, he moves on to the next female target. Because sex does not bond him, conquest releases him from obligations not previously arranged and that he intends to honor. IOW, he dumps her because his high threshold for guilt enables him to conquer and depart relatively unhindered; “she should have known better than to fall for my charm.” Thus, he either continues with her as girlfriend, fiancé, potential mate, or just booty, or else he goes fishing in another lake and does so with little remorse. All’s fair in love and conquest.
——
And now back to V&U.
To Mr. Hardtoget unless she’s sexually unattractive, every unconquered woman is a target. Women don’t have to even be attractive enough to be seen with in public. Mr. V&U purposely misrepresents his interest, which is to score efficiently, that is, with the least investment of time, effort, money, and words. Women should presume they are always a target and go on alert status as soon as they spot hardtoget symptoms used by a man.
Hardtoget is an ancient(?) female attitude and tactic. Men adopt and refine it in order to more easily conquer as many women as come along. Thus, men exploit the female nature against itself.
It’s conceived to work this way. Initiating self-doubt and guilt, a woman concludes from Mr. V&U’s approach that something is wrong with her. She feels offended that a guy could not want her sexually or not want to take advantage of all she has to offer to a friend, companion, partner, mate. His tactic victimizes her attitude and, hopefully for him, she turns herself from being chased to chasing, from buyer to seller, from resistant to eager. She capitulates at being virtually ignored and so she takes the initiative that facilitates his getting her into bed; she may even lead the way or take him by hand depending on what she feels she has to prove to herself.
The easier she allows herself to be conquered, the more likely she won’t be respected in the morning. The more time he invests to conquer, the more respect she earns in his eyes. Investors appreciate only what they earn. Takers don’t appreciate what they are given, and even worse, men don’t appreciate unearned gifts.
So, fair lady Cinnamon, it’s not a woman’s behavior that invites V&U. It’s her appearance. Her mistake is to feel badly about herself for thinking that a guy thinks that she’s not much of a woman, and so she takes the bait and determines to prove it to him. Set, game, match for him.
——
P.S. It may not be clear above, but this principle is embedded. When visual likeability is more prominent than sex appeal, it subdues sexual attractiveness, forces guys to spend more time researching for weaknesses to facilitate bedding her, and thereby discourages the use of V&U tactics. In the extra time guys spend on and with her, they learn that she’s more valuable than just for sex, which gives her greater potential for her visual likeability to grow and generate interest in guys for long-term relationships. She gains greater control of her destiny.
What Women Never Hear 
“Women don’t even have to be attractive enough to be seen with in public”. Can you explain this? I read somewhere that men place women into three categories: 1) Attractive enough for a long term relationship 2) Attractive enough for sex but not for a long term relationship and 3) Not attractive enough. Is it possible for a man to look at a women and without knowing her personality place her into categories 1 and 2? Is this the same thing when a guy chases a women he claims is unattractive but does so in pursuit of sex?
Your Highness Krysie869,
You ask about this, “Women don’t have to be even attractive enough to be seen with in public”. It means that they will sleep with women they would not want to be seen with.
You ask, “Is it possible for a man to look at a women and without knowing her personality place her into categories 1 and 2?” It’s possible but men don’t think that way, except as they have possibly learned it to make themselves more efficient in the pursuit of sex.
You say that others “place women into three categories: 1) Attractive enough for a long term relationship 2) Attractive enough for sex but not for a long term relationship and 3) Not attractive enough. Some men may argue such things at the bar. Some women may blame men of such simple-minded or even callous decision making. But the male nature works more sophisticatedly as is described in the article above, that is, quite differently than women have been led to believe and men choose to disclose to others.
Responding by the numbers, 1) If she’s sexually attractive, she’s attractive enough to capture his attention. If she holds his attention for an extended period of time, she may accumulate the potential he expects and the promise he needs to see in her to qualify as his wife. The male nature seeks a permanent relationship; men are born that way. Unless he learns differently, as often happens in the pop culture, he invests himself in finding and choosing one who he thinks has promise to support and help fulfill and satisfy his ambitions and missions in life (not just for a long term). He’s born with all the necessary skills to be compatible that way.
2) Attractive enough for sex is enough for anything after conquest: dating or dumping, courtship or booty, shack up or marriage, short term or long term.
3) Considering all men, no women are not attractive enough for sex. Every woman can find a sex partner; some have to learn to play both sexual and other assets more deliberately and uniquely.
Women lose the marital lottery with aspirations for sexual freedom, ambitions to dominate relationships, and ambitions of men to exploit the freedom and reject female dominance. When women make unmarried sex unavailable, they govern the pathway to lifetime marriage and family permanence. OTOH, by believing and living within parameters set in barrooms, coffee klatches, entertainment media, and porn outlets and propagandized by smooth talkers, then women live contrary to how they are designed, endowed with certain superior traits, and hormonally energized. When they fall into that trap, men take advantage and female-friendly society deteriorates, marriages collapse, families disintegrate, women lose influence, wives lose the power to shape cultural values, and husbandly dominance takes over virtually unhindered by wifely influence.
As women go, so goes society.
Guy
Hello Sir Guy!
I need your wonderful guidance. It’s odd how almost everything you write relates to something going on in my marriage. Probably not a good sign… Anyway, my husband STILL pulls this “hard to get” stuff with me. We have been married almost ten years, and I have taken the bait almost every time. It’s become our way of married life.
I’ve often thought to myself that I over-do it, that I text him too much or almost grovel. His most severe use of this disrespectful tactic is when we fight. He hits way below the belt, and generally upsets me so badly that I act crazy and rebellious. I wind up feeling guilty and ashamed of myself and even though he is always much meaner than I ever could be, I’m the one that apologizes, and life goes on.
Recently he picked a bad fight with me over almost nothing. I had no chance to diffuse the situation with sweetness. He basically told me, without realizing it, that he’s ashamed of me for not respecting myself, for not making him respect me, and for not having control of our kids because his example to them is to disrespect me (he also takes my reigns and tries to make me discipline them the same way he does, which doesn’t work for me). He broke my heart, and when I got to the verge of losing it, like I usually do when he gets going, I stopped myself. I kept peace in my heart. I refused to let him break my self-respect. In this way, I ended the fight for the first time ever without any groveling apologies.
I also did something I maybe shouldn’t have done, and that’s what I want your advice on. So far, it seems like it was definitely the right thing to do, but I hate to make big decisions without at least a little guidance from people I trust.
I told him that he is not to touch me anymore as his wife. He asked what I meant and I said that if he did, it would be rape, because I will not touch him in that way again until he has learned to respect me and renewed our vows publicly. I know you recommended this for unfaithful spouses, and he has been unfaithful once without much repercussion, but that was two years ago, and has not happened since. We have actually grown a lot since then, and I have found enough self-respect to finally put my foot down and do what I have to do. I hope it’s right.
Your Highness Maria,
First, don’t question any decisions chosen to restore your self-respect. Only you know what it takes to do that, so only you can judge. (Your method looks great to me, by the way.)
Second, when you found peace in your heart and changed directions, you gained control over your destiny. It’s up to him to fit himself into your self-respecting life. You can only respect him to the extent that you respect yourself; you can’t give what you don’t have—but the same applies to him.
Third, he too suffers lack of self-respect associating with you and children and perhaps even outside the family. He creates turmoil because he’s denied the privilege or ability of earning self-admiration within his family. (That could point a finger at you.) Without it his self-respect dissolves in emotional outbursts that show lack of respect of others and further weaken his self-respect. To better control his outbursts, he needs self-admiration that he’s a better husband and father.
Fourth, keep going as you intend and especially ‘no touching’. On the way, however, find things and ways by which you can admire him in his numerous roles and missions in life and especially family. For example, admire that he doesn’t show favoritism of one child over another. Or, he does a good job in any of his various roles, such as taking care of the cars, tending house appearance, uplifting the spirit of a child, smiling as father rather than frowning as disciplinarian.
Look where you’ve never looked before to find ways to point out what an admirable person he is. Hopefully, get him looking as you do and for the same purpose—finding many things to admire about his endeavors, values, standards, expectations, and results produced that favor HIS family. (Which translates into you giving up pride of ownership in the family and passing credit to him for good leadership. Also, many families are plagued by this: two equal bosses is the shortest route to turmoil.)
Fifth, forget the past. You’ve launched a new husband-wife process. It’s up to you to merge it smoothly—and admiringly for him—into improved family life.
You didn’t start a revolution but a coup within the family. You’ve put yourself in charge and can exploit your relationship skills to restore the marriage you hope for. The more you can be like the woman he married, the easier your job will be.
Here are your own magic words upon which you should depend, “I stopped myself. I kept peace in my heart.” That’s your secret weapon so stand by it firmly and guard it closely.
Guy
Dearest Sir Guy,
Thank you so much for your kindness in helping me with this. I could never express in words how much it matters, and I think even your imagination, with the excellent education behind it, would fall short of understanding. Maybe in Heaven you’ll know what you’ve done for me.
I always look for some form of an authority to over-see my big decisions in life. I didn’t used to do it. I used to believe that rebellion was the only way to show I had self-respect. I think that is the common belief in modern American women, spread by our feminist follies.
When I tried to use rebellion with my husband, it failed miserably. He would have simply left me if I had persisted in it. I had to find a new path, and I did, through St. Faustina. Her diary is about God’s Mercy. Her theme is, “Jesus, I Trust in You.” Her wisdom is astounding, but since she was a nun in a convent and I am a housewife in a home, distinctions have been made. I can’t live as carefully and strictly as she was able to, but I am still able to apply many principles she had to my own life. One is this; God gives us authority to trust, and when we obey them it pleases Him. I found mine in a priest I met at a luncheon who my husband got along with beautifully. I have been writing him letters for 7 years now to get spiritual advice. He once referred me to a blogger, and then she referred me to you, so I feel that God has indicated that you are an authority to be trusted, because you came from that root. I will still double check things with this priest, but he is not so invested in the same sort of study you do, so it will help him to have your insights as well as my own.
“First, don’t question any decisions chosen to restore your self-respect. Only you know what it takes to do that, so only you can judge.” I don’t agree with this statement, and you may think it’s a lack of self-respect in me that causes it, but keep in mind that this same line of thinking could result in divorce quite easily. The Bible does say that we should not deny our spouses in marital relations, just as it says we should not divorce. So my caution is warranted, and I cannot be objective enough to make the call on my own. I’m not sure what guidelines you advise for this tactic of denying a husband sex, but I think you need not be too scrupulous because if a woman has enough self-respect to try this stunt, her husband is likely to be fascinated enough to cooperate. So far this has been the result for me. He is annoyed and wants to rebel, but he’s too captivated to look away for too long. And when a man is cooperating, the woman isn’t exactly denying him anything. That is my poorly concluded logic. Maybe you can elaborate on this point for me.
I will do as you say and find new ways to admire him. I was relieved to read this because I want to give him some positive feedback, but I didn’t realize how it could be done. I have cut him off from almost all of my attention lately. He’s expecting me to come say goodnight to him, to say “I love you” first, to invite myself to join him when he is doing something fun. I am waiting for him to start showing enough interest in me that he initiates these things. He’s extremely annoyed by it. When he got mad that I didn’t come say goodnight, I told him I was hurt that he didn’t come say it to me, and he looked sort of confused.
I want my husband to be my trusted authority, and overall he is. From time to time he tells me that I need to smoke a bowl of weed, or miss church to go fishing with him (which is only a load of work for me with a baby girl and 3 y.o. boy), so I cannot rely on him alone. I do obey him, even when he oversteps his boundaries and orders me to do something that I know will cause me trouble and stress in the near future. He is most definitely the undisputed King in this house. I do not try to take that from him. I want my children to respect and obey authority, so I try to show them through my example to their father.
I know that I should, however, have the freedom of a Queen in my house. With all due respect given to the King, there is certainly room for this, and even need. Our whole family would benefit from my feminine gifts if I had the confidence and freedom to use them with the gentle guidance of the King. This is my hope and dream. Thanks to your advice, I can pursue it with the peace of God in my heart.
Hello Guy,
I hope that you are well today.
This is off topic but I seem to have observed that men appear to have an unwritten honor code by which they live for example, even when they sleep around with whomever is available, they will not for the most part do so with their friends’ sisters or ex-girlfriends/love interests.
On the other hand, I have observed that women do not appear to have the same rules of conduct among their own gender and in fact I have seen many women angle to get a man that they know is taken. I have also observed in myself that men who are in committed relationships do appear more appealing and attractive (though I would like to make it clear that I have never acted on this and I have purposes to never undermine another woman’s relationship) and when I was in a relationship I observed many women instantly appraise my ex favorably.
If I am correct in my observation, is this nature at work or what it this?
Could you kindly give your thoughts on this?
Your Highness Prettybeans,
Re unwritten honor code: It’s no code. Men don’t want to sleep with women who know each other. They expect womanly chatter to compare them about sexual performance behind their back. Any disclosure except the highest praise would be destructive to their self-respect and self-admiration if they hear of it, and reputation among peers if it gets out. (Incidentally, you’re not off topic.)
Re women with such a code: They have no fear of being compared. Her sexual availability is sufficient; whatever her ability she’s quite capable of satisfying a man.
It’s nature at work.
Guy
You say men don’t want to sleep with woman who know each other. What do you feel about the men on the show Maury who sleep with their wives best friend or their cousin’s sister? Why would they behave that way?
Your Highness Krysie869,
They behave that way because screenwriters and directors seek to make money, tear down marriage and morality as restraints on cheap and easy sex, and expand male dominance of females in exchange for feminist disrespect of men.
Guy
Sorry this is so long but I had a eureka moment!
This is in words exactly what I have experienced it is so eerily accurate.
* Mr. V&U purposely misrepresents his interest, which is to score efficiently, that is, with the least investment of time, effort, money, and words. *
I met someone EXACTLY like this except yours truly was tough as nails when it came on to no sex and not dating an unsaved man. So I agreed to be his friend, which he of course saw as the ultimate challenge.
At first I was hard, cold, unyielding and had sharp witty comebacks. Over the course of a few months of seeing him around chatting on the phone my heart was so relieved that finally after 25 years on isolation and manlessness someone has shown interest in me and was attracted to me.
I though maybe.. just maybe after some years if I pray hard enough and wait he’d become a Christian THEN I would be free to date him, marry him, have babies and live happily ever after.
We were at constant odds and could not agree on anything.
Could he get me to date him? – No
Get intimate with him? – No
Kiss him? – No
I stood firmly on those things
But, my heartbreak came from shattered hope and becoming infatuated with the man that could have been, looking back I didn’t trust God that he would provide a God fearing partner for me at the right time. So when the first man approached after all these years of being alone I held on to that hope (like a drowning man clutches straw) that maybe in a few years this could be him. It had to be for I could not forsee ever meeting anyone else I had become so used to being looked over and feeling undesirable and so I allowed myself to be extremely disrespected by him 😦
His tactics worked like a charm, he came on sooo strong and oh so sweet and charming then when he realized I still refused to have sex with him the claws came out. And I was the one calling, trying to make him like me and not ignore me, wondering what I did to make this man hate me so much and say such demeaning things.
When he realized sex was off the table he asked me for cellphone minutes(which I gave stupidly), tried to borrow cash, asked me for a smartphone or watch for his birthday (none of which I gave)
Talk about vague and unavailable he was so secretive. He didn’t want to meet my friends, didn’t want to meet at decent public places he was so adept at covering his tracks. My the friendship dismantled I searched and I searched for answers for closure and then just by describing him to my friends they all went “oh that guy”? “you wan’t nothing to do with him.
I guess what I am saying Guy is that I would add to your statement in astericks above that they not only want to score sexually with the least investment of time, money and words but he was determined to get all that and MORE from you that which they are so unwilling to give and without remorse. We used to live in the same neighborhood then he moved so I called him to say “hey did you get settle in okay”. He was at home with his girlfriend (no biggie to me since I wasn’t gonna date him anyway), they were making breakfast… then he goes into this long tirade
” why are you calling me? You need some friends, you need a man, you need to find some better clothes and get around and have a life”
and she was cracking up with laughter in the background.
My lesson was learned I needed to have better standards and boundaries for how I allowed myself to be treated. He had the gall to call me a week later and ask to borrow $20 because good friends are better than pocket money. I was like hell no!
This blog is opening up my eyes, my relationship with God is deepening and from now on I will never deal with an Mr. Vague and Unavailable.
I am holding out for a Mr. Good Enough who at least MUST be Mr. P T S (present and trustworthy and sincere)
… but it was a lesson learned.
NOTE: I RESPOND IN BRACKETS AND CAPS TO your questions in lower case WITH PARAGRAPHS BROKEN DIFFERENTLY JUST FOR EASE OF READING.
GUY
——
Hello Guy,
I hope that all is well today. [YOUR COMMENT ADDS TO THE WELLNESS OF MY DAY.]
I have a random comment – As far as the interrelationship between men and women is concerned, for the most part feminism has been destructive in that it has fed us with the wrong conclusions that equality and equity are one and the same, that there is no distinction in natural gender roles and if in fact there is any such thing as a natural gender role then the emphasis has been placed on the execution of identical tasks rather than complementarity in roles/tasks as between the two different parts that form the unit. [GOOD POINTS WELL EXPRESSED.]
Additionally, and in as far as the modern age is concerned (when I say modern I am thinking of my age group – children of the eighties and the nineties), I also think that homosexuality has contributed greatly to the erosion of gender roles because I observe a feminisation of many otherwise masculine men in gay relationships and the masculinisation of ladies in lesbian relationships. To my mind, homosexuality has eroded and continues to erode the role models of what it means to be manly men and what it means to be feminine women and that increasingly the lines are blurred. [AMONG STRAIGHT PEOPLE] Incidentally, did you know that AIDS used to be called GRIDS in the first one and a half years from its diagnosis? [NO, I DIDN’T KNOW THAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY ‘GAY-RELATED IMMUNE DEFICIENCY’.] I realize that this is not a popular view but despite the fact that I do not mean to offend, it is the view that I hold. I do not consider myself a gay-basher and neither do I condone any violence or such acts being carried out against members of the LGBT community but I think that there is a clear distinction between the inherent rights of a human being and immoral conduct which should be discouraged. What do you think?
[I AGREE. THERE IS NOW A TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECT UNDERWAY THAT GUARANTEES THAT SOCIAL AND DOMESTIC PRESSURES ON WOMEN WILL WORSEN FOR THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN. WHAT HAPPENS TO CHILDREN RAISED ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN MORAL VALUES? RAISED ON NOT LIVING UP TO SOMETHING OR SOMEONE HIGHER THAN THEMSELVES—INCLUDING MOTHER? WHEN IMMORALITY DISCREDITS MOTHERHOOD, HOW DO CHILDREN TURN OUT AS ADULTS? AND THEIR CHILDREN AND CHILDREN’S CHILDREN? AS THE TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECTS WORSEN, MOTHERS AND GRANNIES BECOME LESS AND LESS INFLUENTIAL. WHAT ARE WOMEN TO DO BUT BECOME MORE MASCULINE AND SEEK SATISFACTION IN LIFE, AS MEN DO, RATHER THAN EARN HAPPINESS WITH OFFSPRING THEY CAN LOVE GRATEFULLY? THAT’S ONE WAY THAT THE TRICKLE-DOWN IMMORAL EFFECTS CAUSED BY A MINORITY TEAR AWAY THE SOCIAL AND DOMESTIC FABRIC OF THE MAJORITY.]
Anyway, to what I wanted to talk about today, I realized that I really like experiments and I have conducted a few on myself. I will tell you about one of them which I conducted in July 2014. [MY ADMIRATION OF YOUR FEMININITY GROWS.]
The experiment was to establish what influences me during my downtime/leisure time and what I am taught through that medium. [MOST PEOPLE AREN’T AWARE OF HOW THEIR LIVES ARE CHANGED WITHOUT THEIR DIRECT KNOWLEDGE. IT’S HOW PROPAGANDISTS AND NOW ADVERTISERS THRIVE AND EARN BIG BUCKS.]
For the sake of the experiment the chosen medium was TV and the array of prime time shows that are available on cable. I watched at least 7 episodes of each show and I watched 5 popular TV shows
Assumptions: [SOLID THOUGHTS LISTED AND IT’S A HIGHLY EDUCATIONAL APPROACH TO START WITH ASSUMPTIONS.]
1. The Bible is the standard upon which I compare the data I receive.
2. I try not to make the bible standard more ‘palatable’ to me as is often the temptation but rather I try to understand what it is being said keeping in mind that if there is a change to be made then I am the one to do the changing
3. The truth is not relative – a thing is either true or it is false, it can be identified as either true or false and it cannot be both true and false at the same time
I realized the following things:-
1. There is a heavy feminist undercurrent to almost everything that is on TV. If men can be vulgar in their speech then so can women. If men can be sexually unrestrained then so can women. If men can abandon their families then so can women. If men can work 14 hours a day in order to climb the corporate ladder then so can women etc. In one show I also noticed that the woman who chose to stay home to care for the kids is depicted as a miserable, pitiable, pathetic creature who in fact as a matter of need must engage in extra-marital activity so as to spice up her dreary life and to rediscover her worth as a viable woman.
2. The themes of sexual violence and sexually depraved eroticism are not-so-subtly pushed and in fact appear to be considered as the way forward
3. The occult and related practices are now considered to be quite normal
4. At least 3 of the higher grossing shows encourage empathy with characters actively participating in immorality – specifically those who are mistresses
5. Homosexuality and alternate forms of sexuality are actively entertained. But I wonder, when we start empathising with and entertaining certain things, where do we stop? Isn’t it conceivable that society would one day we will seek to protect the rights of rapists and pedophiles when they argue that ‘they were born that way’?
[WHAT YOU WONDER ABOUT IS HIGHLY PREDICTIVE. SOCIETY EVOLVES ACCORDING TO CURRENT TRENDS. WHEN MORAL VALUES AND STANDARDS ARE PUSHED OFF THE MOUNTAIN TOP, MORE IMMORALITY REPLACES IT. MINORITY POLITICS HAS TO GROW OR IT DIES, WHICH MEANS THAT HOMO POLITICS HAS TO JUSTIFY AND EXPAND ITS PRIME MISSION WITH MORE EXCUSES FOR MORE DEVIANCE. AND THE MINORITY THUS GOVERNS THE MAJORITY, WHICH IS WHAT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS ALL ABOUT.]
Conclusions:-
1. While I was watching, I noticed something interesting in myself – that at the beginning I was quite offended and sometimes even angry at what I was watching but a few episodes in, I was caught up in the story line and I found myself commiserating with those characters who would ordinarily be considered as villainous. In fact my mind started changing and I started understanding the difficulties that they faces in their particular circumstances. [DECADES AGO ADVERTISERS LEARNED THAT PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUES WORK VERY WELL FOR THEM TOO, WHICH MEANS THAT NOT A LOT OF MORALITY IS LEFT IN THE ADVERTISING BUSINESS. THE TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECT APPLIES THERE ALSO. THE ADVERTISING MINORITY TOO QUICKLY RUNS OUT OF IDEAS WHEN THEY HAVE TO TOE THE LINE OF MORAL BEHAVIOR, WHEN THEY TOO HAVE TO LIVE UP TO SOMEONE HIGHER THAN THEIR PROFESSION.]
2. There are shows that I have completely written off and with the exception of the news, I’m still looking for something suitable to watch though I am currently working through the list of movies that you recommended in one of your articles. [THOSE MOVIES ARE LISTED, AND THERE ARE SO MANY MORE UNLISTED, BECAUSE THEY EXEMPLIFY THE ATTENTIVE AND AFFECTIONATE WORDS THAT WOMEN WANT TO HEAR AND THAT PROGRAM A MAN’S HEART TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY HER. A MAN’S ACTIONS PROGRAM HIS HEART. KINDER WORDS MAKE HIS HEART KINDER, AND THE RELATIONSHIP IS DIRECT AS LONG AS SINCERITY ALSO PREVAILS IN HIS HEART, WHICH GOOD MOTHERS ARE WONT TO TEACH THEIR BOYS.]
2. I am unmarried and I don’t have children but I have decided that I will likely not even have a TV in my future home – my friends think I am a little off centre with this one. [WELL, I THINK YOU’RE DIRECTLY ON CENTER. YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF MORE EASILY BELIEVING IN YOUR HEART AND YOUR FEMININE NATURE.]
Keeping in mind that a woman’s best tool is indirectness, do you think it would be a viable technique to subtly quiz a man on how he spends his downtime? Secondly, to find out specifically what he watches in the way of TV shows and movies and how that informs and impacts his world view? [OF COURSE, YOU WOULD BE FOOLISH NOT TO. IT SHOULD BE A STANDARD PART OF THE SCREENING FOR AND OF MR. GOOD ENOUGH.]
I look forward to hearing from you. [AND I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU AGAIN. AND THANKS FOR THE WELL-ORGANIZED, WELL-EXPRESSED, AND WELL-ACCEPTED COMMENT. GUY]
Hi prettybeans,
What you’ve explained above is outstanding. If I was ever required to defend my position on how come I don’t watch tv, I hope you don’t mind me borrowing from your analysis.
I will wait for sir Guy to answer your question about what men watch on tv and how that could help understand their views and way of thinking. I almost always ask men around me what do they watch, and when they tell me I research it as I am tv ignorant. It does tell a lot , given that no one read books anymore.
Also, I see that you are not by any means off centre for not having a tv in your home as people claim. You are very wise and brave. See, I have 2 tvs at home and I watch NOTHING! As for the news, I listen I don’t watch.
let us know what’s your next experiment 🙂
Thank you for making me smile Mr. Guy – it is refreshing not to have to argue everything out to an audience that doesn’t want to consider.
My thoughts are however not completely original as they are informed by lots of Christian material that I read and listen to so I will not take credit for everything.
However, as far as arguing my thoughts with the people that I react with is concerned, I am working on teaching myself that I need not explain my thoughts and standards to anyone. If someone wants to know me better then I suppose they will venture to do so. In the meantime I’ve caught myself walking around with a secret smile because I have all these pleasant thoughts buzzing in my brain 🙂
Thank you too Ms. Cocoa – If my experiment is anything to go by, you’re not missing much on TV. Should I run another conclusive experiment which is relevant to the blog then I will share my findings.
Have a lovely day!
Your Highness Prettybeans,
You’ve learned some vital wisdom firsthand. Don’t complain and don’t explain. All it does is invite judgment of you, and that shapes the opinions of others in ways that may not be favorable.
Guy
Prettybeans,
I must say, I agree with your findings. Since I started reading this blog, I have also began to pay more attention to TV shows, music videos, and just pop culture in general. It’s fascinating to see how things are packaged to forward a certain agenda. If you don’t know what to look for, it will slip right past you. Loved your experiment.
Thank you Shanna. It is very important that we all learn how to operate with eyes wide open.
Hi lady Prettybeans,
I read your comment with great satisfaction.
I stopped watching TV ages ago and now only concentrate in my free time on (usually old) films on DVD.
But I am not in the habit of volunteering this information to other people except some close family for fear I would be ridiculed.
Thank you for making me feel less of a unicorn 😊.
I also find your views on how homosexuality affects gender roles interesting.
I have observed that in any more or less stable gay or lesbian relationship one partner will consistently behave more masculine and the other more feminine and have concluded that it may just be proof that polarity is necessary for a sexual relationship to thrive or even survive.
In other words they may be the same sex but they do not behave as the same gender if that makes sense?
To me it’s proof God knew what He was doing creating 2 sexes instead of just one and also that Nature always seeks balance.
I feel personally horrified that same sex couples are now allowed to raise children.
Who is to predict the effect it will have on such children?
Thank you Lady Femme. You have made me smile and apologies for the very delayed response. I’ve been travelling and with limited access to the internet
Dear Sir Guy,
thank you for this post in particular.
I have met my own version of Mr v/u.
At first I wasn’t interested in him at all but he was in full pursuit mode for a few months so I finally started seeing potential. I thought we clicked on many levels… but now I have reason to believe he was just trying to make that impression (by asking a lot of questions about me)for one specific purpose. Then all of a sudden he turned around and started having doubts and saying I wasn’t the woman he was looking for… that I should start dating other men. He also mentioned we were like 2 magnets that turned around to repel each other. Exactly! I was devastated and humiliated. It also put me in a pursuit mode for quite some time. But when I finally told him not to contact me any more he tried to stay friends and have a platonic relationship – whatever that meant to him.
The problem, I think, is that as women earn their own money they have to be in a masculine mode to make things happen.
We then try to apply the same to relationships with men. Only it doesn”t work and we are the ones who lose in the end.
But this man did it on purpose. He had me hooked first and then sat back and relaxed as I tried (briefly) to prove my worth to him.
As I was doing it I ignored my own feelings until I couldn’t any more.
It was a very painful lesson but I think unfortunately I needed it.
it enabled me to get my priorities right, define the relationship I would like to be in and be on High alert with potential romantic interests.
But why don’t men want to take risks any more? Why do they want to be pursued?
I’ve had 2 men recently suggest to me I should invite them to my place for coffee. They lost interest in me as soon as I made it clear (in a nice waay) I wasn’t going to.
The pool of men who aren’t into that kind of behaviour seems to be shrinking and it kind of is hard not to be too desperate as years go by.
That sounds so passive…asking for you to ask them over for coffee?
A friend of mine who social (ballroom) dances told me about a male “friend” she saw on the dance floor. (They apparently have a slight romantic interest in each other but no one has acted on it yet.)
A few days later she saw him at a different event and teasingly asked why he didn’t ask her to dance that night, he seriously said “Well….you could always ask ME to dance!”.
Although its not uncommon these days for women to ask men for a dance or two, it wasn’t exactly what she was hoping to hear and sounded like a “who shall bend first” competition. So it put my friend off the guy a bit. They are still circling each other, both interested but scared to be the first one to suggest doing something together. She’s determined to stick to being “the girl” in the potential relationship because the last man she dated seemed to depend on her for everything….I can’t blame her, and I’m wondering the same thing as you are.
Yes, one was always flirting with me, happy to see me, talking but never suggesting anything. So I put him in a friend zone (he is not my type anyway) and was just enjoying the conversations.
Then after about a year of this he said “you know you should ask me over to your place for a coffee”. I’m sure we all know what he meant. When I recovered my powers of speech I told him if HE wanted to invite me to a coffee shop I probably won’t mind. He stopped recognising me in the street ever since and I don’t see him around as much. The other one I see almost everyday at work. He always comments on whether I smiled at him that day or not. If I don’t he will reproach me… Then this comment about the invitation. He asked if I had a good weekend, I said yes. He said “a party?”. I said yes actually I had a good time, thanks for asking. Then he said I should have invited him! I can’t believe it. Now he tries avoiding me at work and deals with my colleague instead. I don’t mind. But I’ve started wondering if I am doing something to make those guys behave like that?
Your Highness Femme,
Yes, you cause it. Good job too. You refuse to let them succeed playing the vague and unavailable male game, wherein women initiate sex to compliment the man for studliness.
Guy
So you know those animals that everyone wants to feed (like Pelicans in Florida) and there are signs saying not to because if you do they will become so accustomed to being fed they forget how to hunt for their food?
This is just a hunch but I suspect that there are so many women out there chasing men (especially good looking seemingly valuable ones) that the majority of men just sort of think all they really have to do is sit around and wait for women to come to them. To chase them, ask them out, suggest getting together. And I guess sometimes that is true.
Still, I think you are right to not take the why-don’t-you-ask-me-out bait. These men need to be re-trained by a woman who knows her own worth.
I mean maybe you will end up alone your entire life but if you are already getting this much attention I doubt it.
Of course I can’t predict the future but I know so many people getting divorced right now. I really believe that a man has to prove his devotion. I learned that here.
Marriage is just so hard you need and deserve to have that. To be treated like the someone special and important that you are.
If a woman chases then she becomes like some sort of second class citizen, even within her marriage.
What can I say, MLaRowe?
So true.
There are so few “good” guys left that women fight between themselves to try and get them. I suspect it’s the direct result of the changes that were instigated so long ago but are still gathering momentum, if I’m not mistaken.
The situation in the West now reminds me of the conversation I had with my former boss whose wife is Chinese.
He said that due to the one-child policy in China (that has been abandoned only recently) most families aborted girls as less valuable than boys. As a result, the girls who HAVE been born are now in high demand simply because there is a shortage of them. And because they can pick and choose they also behave quite badly sometimes, like princesses. That’s the paradox we are kind of facing here with guys, I think.
I so agree with you that most men need to be re-trained by women. The problem is most modern women don’t understand that. They keep chasing. It’s hard not to, actually.
It’s really hard to stop overdoing things in relationships and being on your own. As Sir Guy wisely observed, a woman’s biggest fear is abandonment.
Yes, I’m afraid I will be alone for the rest of this lifetime. But so far I’ve been in 2 serious relationships in which the men were NOT devoted and I know that it simply doesn’t work. Even if one of the relationships was a marriage.
I know just 2 marriages that seem to be working well. They are not perfect but good enough. In both of them, the women are the bosses in the home and the husbands make money and focus on providing for the family.
I also know a few where the partners are more “evolved” (which mostly means that the wife goes out of her way to prove that her place is NOT in the kitchen and makes a point of being independent financially) and on the surface everything seems to be fine, but deep down something doesn’t feel right. For example, one of the husbands thought it was appropriate to touch my breast “by accident” and he sometimes states charmingly in front of strangers that his wife can’t cook and makes other seemingly innocent remarks about her as a woman that she pretends to take lightly.
Hence I know that Sir Guy is right.
Same for me, there’s a fat chance that I might stay single for a long time, I simply cannot advance in relationships because the men usually stop pursuing once they cannot get sex. I really dislike how everything ends so quickly because they don’t want to develop something meaningful. Not from the US, but in my country there is also a huge desperation when it comes to men, girls pursuing all the time, men don’t need to lift any finger. They quickly move in with him, cook, clean, but get treated like trash since guys are prone to cheating. Never seen a single man in my country that treated his girlfriend as something special, whenever I see these messed-up couples, I’m thinking my situation is better. But then again, being single is horrible. Two main reasons why I want a husband: for physical protection because a lone woman is an easy target for all sorts of unpleasant situations and to have my own place to live with him,
Sir Guy,
men are never more handsome than when they say I’m doing something right 🙂
Thank you for these series of posts. I am surprised that other people found this useful, I had only expected it to be an offhand thought of mine!
You now have me wondering to what extent MaleHardtoget manifests depending on the character of the man employing it as a strategy. E.g., some men generally seem more “vague” to induce women to guilt and therefore giving the man more attention…….other men seem to want to directly induce that guilt, such as telling the woman about how many other women he’s dating.
So as you have covered in depth before, addressing her guilt (both specific to the potential man and to others/life in general) with gratitude seems to be the best way for a woman to recover from Male V/U. I say guilt regarding ‘life in general’ because I wonder if some males sense vulnerability/naievety in more innocent women, and use more manipulative V/U tactics for these less experienced women?
Your Highness Eleni,
I think you’re spot on but don’t realize it.
1st paragraph: Some men are more vague, other men more prone to inflict guilt.
2nd paragraph: Some men sense vulnerability/naivety, conclude more innocent, and change V&U tactics.
The answer is YES. All of the above. Men read women and react according to what they think will work.
——
So, for the woman’s counter-tactic, let her look for, accept, and believe only in what she can be grateful for in a man. If she can find gratefulness in certain of his traits and character, she can also doubt his worth where’s she’s unable to find gratefulness. She can guide her reactions, judgments, and predictions of his value to her by focusing on where, what, how, and why she can or doesn’t find gratefulness in him.
She can disregard his V&U tactics. She can wait for him to start uncovering who and what he is so that she can identify those things about him for which she can theoretically be grateful if they develop a relationship. If she can’t find gratitude, he’s not investing himself in order to more easily fool her.
By searching for her gratitude for his traits, character, and ability to act pleasantly with her, she foils whatever deviousness surrounds his hardtoget tactic. Looking for ways to be grateful for him automatically slows her interest and forces him to accelerate his interest out of which his intentions become more obvious.
Upon reading those last three paragraphs, I feel inadequate to more clearly explain something that I think will work. But I can’t be certain; it just seems right.
Guy
Something about what you’ve said here…. Speaking only for myself, what you’ve termed finding gratitude for some aspects of a man’s personality or character is what I would mean when I say I “like” some things about a man. I never thought of it as being grateful, which is a more conscious act and perhaps less superficial? When you said “slows her interest”, do you mean that just by making herself look for those aspects of a man’s traits and character, a woman then has to assess a man more rationally and so will be less inclined to find excuses for red flags, especially if he’s excited her interest? In other words, she isn’t letting herself get carried away by his attention, or confused by his lack of it. Which then makes him react.
Your Highness Peach Blossoms,
Yes, I think for each question and case, you’ve drawn the right conclusion.
Guy
Sir Guy.
Thank you for this article. I do have some questions about some of the things you wrote but I don’t have time today to explain them. Also, I need to catch up on the comments, which may clarify some of the issues for me.
I feel this is such an important area, particular for the single women.
I will come back and revisit this when I have some more time.
Sir Guy and Ladies,
Looking for some advice. There are two men in my singles church group and I know one is definitely interested, the other has shown interest (asked to sit next to me at church, sits next to me at social functions) but also mixed with some V/U tendencies. The man who is actively showing interest is new to the group (only attending for a few weeks). I’m leery of men who join singles groups and immediate begin trying to make a move on women even if they say all the right things about God. He asked for my phone number last Sunday and I gave it to him — I still have a problem with this boundary. He has since called (I didn’t answer) and I know he’s going to ask for a dinner date. The other man I am more attracted to (his personality and sense of humor) — except he’s done this dance with me for a little over 6 months. In the interim, he’s brought a woman to a few functions and after seeing them together, my guess is that she is on the fast lane to dumpee (if not already). My question is how do I proceed in this situation?
Your Highness That Horse Is Dead,
Be patient. It’s too soon to judge. You don’t know enough. Trust your instinct and intuition to guide you while you let both guys expand their horizon with you and the other on the scene. When both guys learn they are in competition, let it play out. How they play against each other will be informative to you.
Cinnamon and MLaRowe offer excellent advice, so merge their thoughts with your gut reactions. Be patient. As Cinnamon says, “Oh, and this is a nice “problem” to have btw :-)”
Guy
P.S. I also want to add that the leader of our singles group repeatedly asks/reminds the group members to get to know each other as fellow believers first before dating or moving into relationships. The new man has obviously not played by the unwritten rules even though I know he was present on a day when the leader announced it.
I would do “The Rules” or something similar to both of these fellows. I know it’s hard to be hard to get when you feel in your heart that you want to be with someone but Sir Guy says to make them work for everything they get from you (that increases your value in their eyes).
I’d stay positive and happy and make sure that is not the only place you are going (plenty of nice men in other situations that are still Christian and family oriented).
One of the things that happened when I met my husband was that there was no drama. He was plainly interested and gladly jumped through the hoops I set up for him (this sounds like the first guy who is plainly interested).
A confident man goes for what he wants no matter what the pastor says etc. Yes, he could be a player or he could be honestly interested in you. Give him a chance to strut his stuff and impress you even if you are more attracted to the other one. When it comes to marriage you want the man who really wants you and is willing to work to get you.
Your Highness MLaRowe,
Good advice and I told her so.
Guy
Dear Guy, Sending you good energy for being such a sweetheart! I’m so glad we met online. Have you ever thought of doing a Youtube series so we can hear you talk in person or do you prefer the written word?
Your Highness MLaRowe,
No, not Youtube, but thanks for the interest. I am thinking of starting some kind of lecture series with a live audience but I need a partner to do all the admin work. Thinking about the design but that’s all.
Guy
I hope that works out. In the meanwhile I’ll keep up with you here.
Sir Guy,
Your opinion means so much. I certainly enjoy your writings and the wonderful community here. Thank you for the input Lady Cinnamon and Lady MLaRowe — points well taken. When you say, “how they play against each other will be informative to you,” do you mean whether one backs off? It’s funny you mention that because it wasn’t until I began talking more to the new man that the 6 month man THEN asked to sit next to me unexpectedly during church service.
Your Highness That Horse Is Dead,
Not likely to back off. If they both want you, they will come closer to get ahead of each other. If you’re not very important to one or he’s not very significant to himself, he will likely lose interest and withdraw. Pay attention, you can read what’s happening.
Guy
Dear Grandfather Guy,
I’m in need of granddaughterly advice again regarding this situation. First an update. The man who came on fast against class rules asking for my phone number fell away quickly. In fact, he rarely comes to class now. The 6 month man finally came around. Over the last couple months, we have been on several lunch dates (once with other people), an evening dinner date just the two of us, and several meetings in between that wouldn’t be labeled as dates but class functions. Things were progressing at a nice slow clip and I sensed he was very interested based upon his initiation of everything. I also must share that he never tried to kiss me. Then a week ago after our last meeting…disappeared. No phone calls. No texts. I casually asked if anyone had talked with him and he is “in town” and “busy.” I have not reached out to him. Been trying to give myself pep talks and not put him on a pedestal he doesn’t deserve, yet I am thoroughly confused. It is a noticeable disappearance considering the previous regularity. You mentioned in your previous message it was “too soon to judge.” Is this still too soon to judge or does this indicate (after a week of no contact) that he has fallen away or something else?
Your Highness That Horse is Dead,
Why are you thoroughly confused? You needn’t be. If they’re both gone, so be it. Obviously neither wanted you bad enough to drive the other away. Don’t focus on their absence. Look for the ‘why?’ of it. You’re blessed that you found them wanting before you got in too deep.
It’s possible in today’s men that one or both could lack the strength of character to compete with the other. IOW they took the easy way out without looking back. What kind of mate does a non-competitor make?
Get your mind off them. Get back to making yourself a better woman for the next guy or two. Don’t waste effort of what might have been. It’s more depressing than productive. Don’t be confused but grateful.
Also, any signs that you’re trying to recover them that gets back to them shows that you’re desperate or close to it. You don’t ever want that to appear in anyone’s mind. It will follow you like a shadow.
Guy
I read an interesting quote the other day. It said: “If a man is interested in a woman he will show it through the attention he pays to her.”
To be honest, I didn’t think 6-Month Guy sounded that promising from your initial description with his V/U tendencies. He just sounded indecisive and wishy-washy. But I do know how much this kind of thing can knock your confidence.
Upward and onward, continue to make yourself a better woman in order to ensure you are worthy of the devotion of a much better man then either of these two!
Agree on all points. I’m going to focus on gratefulness for another learning opportunity with men. I’m another step closer to a brighter future. Lady Cinnamon, I love your quote. Here’s one of my favorites from WWNH, “If a woman treats a man of interest as expendable, he reads it as if he may lose her. His ego regurgitates the unpleasantness. If she’s worth it to him, he’ll stay around for more of the game. If she’s not worth playing the game with, he’ll depart. Either way she wins.”
This man popped back into the picture again since my last writing, once by phone and then yesterday he brought my favorite coffee drink to Sunday school as a surprise (and he had to go to Starbucks to get it). He didn’t bring a drink for anyone else. Then he asked to sit by me again in church. He’s still clearly not asking me on a date (our last date was 3 weeks ago). So my question is what was that? Part of me wonders is this just the way dating goes these days? Is a month between dates normal with little interaction between? I’ve read about men being “slow” but my friends say he is just relieving his guilt for disappearing and wants to look like a nice guy. I responded in a friendly way and per Cinnamon’s suggestion, like I hadn’t noticed with my mind on other things. He even started to say how busy he’s been and I changed the subject like I didn’t hear him. There’s no other dating prospects at the moment and the only single men I could invite to church are already in my Sunday school class and I don’t want to send the wrong idea. What do I do IF he does eventually ask me on a date again? Give him the benefit of the doubt or determine by his actions so far he’s not Mr. GoodEnough? It’s hard to get my mind off him when he’s bringing me coffee and sitting next to me at church.
Dear That Horse Is Dead,
A few years back, I had a similar situation with a man at my church. I felt confused and frustrated and allowed myself to be in emotional limbo for two years. I had to cut off all contact with him. It was the most painful, but ultimately, the best thing for me.
A week later he met the new girl in town. A month later they were dating exclusively. Six months later they were engaged. Six months after that they were married.
The same guy that was wishy washy with me for two years, met and married someone else in the span of 12 months. He was capable of deliberately pursuing someone after all.
I tell you this because I think I understand something of your situation. I really believe that a man with specific intentions will be clear about them. Just remember that you are the only one who can make the decision about whether or not your man in question is worth pinning hopes on. And you have the ability to show people how you want to be treated. Do you want emotional limbo or clarity? If you want clarity, get it from yourself by determining how you will expend your mental and emotional energy.
Unless or until he asks you out, there’s not much point in wondering what his intentions are. If he asks you out, then you can think about whether or not to accept. I encourage you not to expend too much time thinking about how to respond to something he MIGHT do.
Best of luck!
Your Highness Lyndeeloo,
I would treat you to YOUR favorite Starbucks if you were here with me right now. How right you are! It definitely helps me to write out my thoughts, because when I read them later…it’s that much more convincing how obvious the answer.
Wow Lyndeloo – GREAT assessment of the situation! BRAVO!
I don’t like this guy, That Horse is Dead. I think you need to try to identify another social outlet where you can meet more men (remember, “action cures depression”). With that said, I have some thoughts to add to Lyndeloo’s:
In the event that Mr. V/U Latte Man DOES ask you out on a proper date again – I would seriously think twice before accepting. I believe V/U men are very manipulative, and that they can “sense” when a woman is feeling vulnerable because she does not have the type of male attention in her life that she would like (namely, attention from a loving, caring, and decisive man). I believe these V/U men are inclined to try to exploit this weakness in order to make her believe that the V/U behaviour is a result of some kind of flaw in HER, attempting to make her become the seller to his buyer.
For these reasons I would urge you to really stay on your guard. If you do choose to go out with him, in your own mind I would psyche yourself up that this is a “just casual friends/having a laugh” type of date with no romance on the agenda – unless his V/U behaviours cease. Of course, you say all this inside your head, and say NOTHING TO HIM of the sort!
The only way the subject of romance would ever come up is if he tries to kiss you or hold hands or otherwise become physical. Were that to happen, I would deflect anything beyond a peck on the cheek and say something indirect such as “I really enjoy your company but I’m not sure if this is headed in the right type of romantic direction,” and if he presses, repeat that you like his company but you are “not sure yet” if you and he are “romantically compatible.” Say these things with warmth and not a hint of anger. Remain polite.
If he presses further you could then say something like, “I am still really getting to know you – I have no idea yet what your hopes are the future. It takes time to get to know someone. I do think you are a lot of fun, though!” This is your way of indirectly throwing down the gauntlet; if Mr. V/U Latte is up for the challenge, he will reveal it with a subsequent, radical behavioural change. So long as this man’s behaviour remains wishy-washy, however, you need to use your feminine charms to keep him at arm’s length.
These are just a few suggestions, others may have better ways of handling it. I just sense that you are quite vulnerable at the moment (understandably) and that this particular man will try to twist the knife (in a charming, “smiling knife” sort of way, of course) and as such, I am urging you to keep your armour on.
Finally, to underscore Lyndeloo’s point – a man who is serious about a woman will vote with his attention in a decisive way. He will NOT be consistenly wishy-washy. Ask yourself, “Would Sir Guy have treated Grace this way?” If the answer is “no,” then take that information on board with utmost seriousness.
On re-read I realise I may have been overly harsh on this man. I don’t know his motives. It is possible he could be a very nice man. But I would just keep in mind that he could be a V/U “player.” Only time will tell what the truth is. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and watch how his actions play out i.e. “trust but verify.”
Good luck.
Your Highness Cinnamon,
In the beginning, this all came about a couple months ago when I had an unexpected and emergency surgery. My Sunday school class rallied around me and Mr. V/U was the only one who visited me at the hospital (he literally was in my room 20 minutes after I was out of surgery with a card and bag full of goodies). To say I was shocked is an understatement. What followed after that was a whirlwind of him bringing me dinner, cleaning up my yard for me, even bringing over his riding lawn mower for my son to ride (a big John Deere). He took me to lunch dates, a dinner date, and he was making statements such as, “When you meet [this person]”…as if he was making plans. If anything, I was the one who was guarded. I’m very friendly, but as I’ve stated before, I’m also quiet and there was no physical beyond hugs. All this is to say, I know I didn’t imagine his pursuit in the beginning. And then the story unfolded as above. It is classic HOT to COLD. And yes, I feel very vulnerable and confused.
That Horse is Dead, your Starbucks comment makes my day!(It’s pumpkin spice latte season. Starbucks…yum!) 🙂
Thanks, Cinnamon. For the record, I agree with your advice. Keeping him at arm’s length is solid counsel!
I often tell my college-aged niece that when it comes to V/U men, “do not provide them an ego boost at the expense of your dignity or emotional well-being. There will always be girls who will allow themselves to be strung along. YOU are not one of those girls. I repeat–you are NOT one of those girls.”
That Horse is Dead,
It sounds like this man “swept you off your feet.” I can certainly see why he holds so much appeal. I do think, however, that “steady” behaviour is a much better indicator of a man’s character and motives than is glamorous but ERRATIC behaviour. An old friend of mine has a saying, “Slow and steady wins the race.” Consistency trumps glamour, at least in my book.
My Mr Goodenough is not much of one for the grand gesture, but I have never questioned that he was serious about me. He always asked consistently for dates even from the very beginning, and has never engaged in unexplained “disappearances.”
The fact that V/U behaviour is apparently rather commonplace these days doesn’t mean that it is acceptable and should be overlooked. Only you can decide what minimum standards of behaviour you are willing to accept from a man, however. I would continue to be warm and friendly, but remain on your guard.
That Horse Is Dead,
A lot of women have the problem you have. This is often because we have far more interest in the man than they do us. I recently became a victim. A man I know that I was interested in would approach me sometimes and maybe even wave, but I started to notice that he doesn’t do so all the time. For example, I would walk past him and he wouldn’t even notice. I believe now that he wasn’t very interested in me.
I am getting better at overcoming my shyness. I have to learn how to control my ego. If I find out that a person isn’t interested in me for me, my ego wants to prove them wrong. I believe that’s where the frustration came in for me when I said in earlier posts that men don’t approach me. It isn’t really that men don’t approach–because some do–it is really my way of trying to convince those who don’t care for me to start doing so. Consequently, I start to overthink and it may lead to desperation and even frustration. As I recognized that about myself, it became much easier to forget about those men.
Dear That Horse Is Dead and other ladies, and Sir Guy,
It’s just a thought, but I wonder too if the act of analysing what a man’s intentions might be leads us into a masculine mode of thinking – one which wants to see results from all these interactions. A man does this and this so that must mean something (result). And if he does something different, our wheels start spinning because we’ve convinced ourselves that the outcome we hoped for is slipping away, and we start feeling lost and confused. As you point out, we can find gratitude in the process (which covers any interactions with a Man of Interest) – that’s a feminine blessing. So we can always find gratitude as it relates to us personally and I think that will shift us into feminine mode, which gives us back ownership of our feelings. Your thoughts?
Your Highness Peach Blossoms,
You describe it very well from problem to solution. Well done.
Guy
I definitely am working toward ownership of my feelings versus caring what other people or Man of Interest thinks. I don’t know if the latter is masculine mode as you describe or rather dealing with a root of fear and shame which is what I suspect is my issue.
Here is my take on your situation:
1. 6-Month Guy: I would be slightly aloof/detached toward him but with an undercurrent of warmth/approachability. Appear as if you have your mind focused on other things, and give no hint that you have even noticed, let alone been bothered by, his V/U behaviours.
Also, you say you like his “personality and sense of humour” but I would urge you to withhold judgment on his “personality” for the moment. Character is the most important part of a man’s personality, and given his V/U behaviour, you really don’t know yet what his character is. So I would reframe your thoughts about him to something like “I am attracted to him and I enjoy his sense of humour, but I don’t really know much about him yet.”
You MUST keep in mind at all times that you are the buyer and he is the seller, no matter how charming he is.
2. Phone Number Guy:
I wouldn’t be too bothered that he moved quickly (others may feel differently) but I AM bothered about his flaunting of the group’s rules (presuming he plans to ask you on a date). I would say this is a case where you need to stand firm by your instinct and conviction that flouting the rule is suspicious. I’m not sure exactly how to word it, but when he calls (and you really should speak to him and not continue to avoid the calls) I would express in a very non-confrontational way that you are flattered by the idea but that the group has certain rules. If he tries to bully you into ignoring the rules just be polite but firm. If he listens, perhaps lob it gently back into his court with, “What do you think is best here?”
In no case would I agree to a date in breach of the group’s rules.
Waiting for Sir Guy’s take 🙂
Oh, and this is a nice “problem” to have btw 🙂
Your Highness Cinnamon,
Good advice and I told her so.
Guy
“I would be slightly aloof/detached toward him” — I’m a very quiet person anyway, not shy, but quiet — so this is not a problem for me. As a matter of fact, the reason I would categorize him in the V/U group is because of something Sir Guy mentioned about these men trying to guilt you. The 6 month man has made comments on separate occasions that “I have my walls up” or “I’m always SO in control.” It seemed odd to me that he would say these things as a way to strike up a conversation, but now it makes sense. Thanks to this blog, I appreciate my quietness as highly unique:)
My dear Sir Guy,
The first time I read this article I rather resented this information but now looking at it with new eyes and in light of the changes I have made towards a more feminine way….this is extremely valuable information!
I believe you can “beat” the V&U man at his own game if you play your part smart and with a sweet, feminine, passive attitude. He will either pursue you with attention and interest or get out of your way. You win if you stay true to your feminine nature. Stay true to yourself and not compromise standards just to have a man.
Your Highness Msarianne,
Your understanding is correct.
Guy
P.S. I’m going to re-read this series.
It’s another Must Read. ☺
This post highlights just how compartmentalised men’s brains are.
It would never occur to me to have separate categories in the romantic sense…to me a man is either good for a relationship or not but I also tend to take a few good traits and “extend” them to the whole person if a man which can be risky.
How easy is it, Sir Guy, for a woman to be transferred from one pigeon hole to another?
I talked to a man recently who said it’s virtually impossible to get out of the “friend zone” into a “possibility for a relationship” zone once you’ve landed there but he’s not someone who I trust very much…
Your Highness Femme,
It’s not something you should think about; if it is to happen it will happen. Otherwise, thinking about the possibility too much invites manipulation.
Guy